Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary

[El_Kabong]

I found tonight’s field far more interesting, and the discussion more substantive, than the first night. Plus there were a couple fairly good zingers: Harris’ remark about how the audience was not looking for a food fight, but to put food on the table, and Buttigeig’s line about affording not to go to college.

Harris was the candidate I was most impressed with prior to the debates, and remain so after seeing her performance tonight. Smells like front-runner to me.

Biden more or less held his own, but did little to persuade me that he isn’t too old and behind the times.

Swalwell’s notion on assault weapon buybacks may be worth discussion, but he came off as such a smarmy git that that’s what most people will actually remember.

I really enjoyed Bernie, but I prefer him as gadfly rather than President, and anyway, if Biden is too old…

Yang may or may not have some worthwhile ideas, but aside from being almost completely ignored all night, I’d rather not see another four years of someone treating the nation’s highest office as an entry-level job.

Positive impressions: Harris, Buttigeig, Sanders

Lukewarm: Biden, Gillebrand, Hickenlooper

Get off my viddy box: Yang, Swalwell, Williamson (tho’ I would like to subscribe to her newsletter), Bennett

[asahi]

@Aspenglow

I think this is an excellent analysis. Personally, I adore Harris – but I’m stickin’ with Joe, at least for now.

They all are who they are, and the best part of this debate for me was that they all got to be who they are. They didn’t name-call. They didn’t make ad hominem attacks or take cheap shots. There was substance in their answers.

Any one of them is a thousand times more qualified that the drooling idiot who presently occupies the Oval Office. Listening to actual policy points, even if not much fleshed out due to time constraints, was like being washed over by a cool stream in the high heat of summer.

It’s early days. I appreciate all these candidates. Some more than others, of course.

The problem with Joe’s response is that he didn’t directly refute what she said. Yes, he said it was a mischaracterization, but he was weak in asserting himself. He basically let himself get owned on that issue, and he didn’t need to. In my mind, it’s not so much what Biden did or didn’t do tonight that’s the story; I am seeing a deeper problem with Biden, which is that he’s not aging well.

[DSeid]

In terms of impact on the polls.

I see Harris gaining taking from Biden and Warren moving more consistently past Sanders. Everyone else mostly stays still. Maybe Booker up a smidge.

The gap between Biden and number two narrows. This looks to me to come down to Biden, Harris, and Warren by end of August with everyone else immaterial.

Also shocked that Biden wasn’t more ready for what came his way.

[Win_Place_Show]

@asahi

If I had to rank the debaters, I’d probably put it like this:

1. Harris
2. Buttigieg
3. Sanders
4. Biden
5. Who cares?

What if you meld the two nights together, what does your ranking look like?

I’m asking this sincerely, as for the better part of the last 2+ years, for the most part I’ve found myself nodding along with most of the posts I’ve read on here, and you’re consistently one of the people I tend to agree with the most.

[Happy_Lendervedder]

Some more thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:

While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let’s face it: presidential campaign politics is at LEAST 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don’t know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it’s not anything new, and as a restult it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it’s why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There’s a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively 100% need to win over to win the White House.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

A modest proposal to keep candidates from speaking past their time limits, as they did over and over and over again. Either:

(a) cut off their microphones after asking them to stop (having only one live mic on stage at a time would also mean other candidates’ mics wouldn’t pick up “spillover” speechifying), or

(b) require each campaign to post a substantial bond ahead of time. Any candidate who kept speaking after a moderator asked them to stop would be “fined,” say, $10,000 for each second they kept speaking. The fines would then be donated either to the Democratic National Committee, or to charity. I concede $10,000 might not be enough - you don’t want the candidates thinking, “It’s worth it to me to pay that much to have a little more time to speak” - but I’m sure the debate organizers can come up with a big enough sum to get the candidates to shut their traps promptly when asked.

[asahi]

Chuck Todd: So, Kamala, your thoughts tonight.

Harris: If he dies, he dies.

[asahi]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Some more thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:

While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let’s face it: presidential campaign politics is at LEAST 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don’t know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it’s not anything new, and as a restult it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it’s why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There’s a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively 100% need to win over to win the White House.

You’re not necessarily wrong, at least in terms of the general election. But we’re talking about the primaries now, and the danger Joe risks is looking out of step with the passionate wing of the progressive party. Conversely, the danger the party runs is looking like the party of identity politics in the general election, which is what Trump wants, which is why he polarizes.

[SlackerInc]

Harris is playing it to perfection. You can’t get to the general without taking Biden down. She is a stone cold killer. Beautiful to watch.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Some more thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:

While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let’s face it: presidential campaign politics is at LEAST 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don’t know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it’s not anything new, and as a restult it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it’s why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There’s a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively 100% need to win over to win the White House.

…are you expecting Trump, if Biden were to win the nomination, to be giving Biden a pass in the debates?

This really should have been easy for Biden to handle. That he didn’t handle it well is a much bigger problem for the Democrats than whether or not people perceive Harris attacked “Uncle Joe.” Trump & Co will have done their “opposition research.” They will have binders full of dirt to use on Uncle Joe. If he couldn’t be bothered preparing for an attack he should have seen coming then what will he be like when he goes up against Trump?

You can’t wrap the nominees up in cotton wool. Biden needed to be tested.

And Donald Trump represents white supremacy. The so-called “race card” will be played and played often because the issues that Booker and Harris are very very real, and very very important, and nobody in the primary are better placed to raise those issues than they are.

[SlackerInc]

I contributed to Harris for the first time tonight, and I am sure I am far from alone. She may have an eye-popping 24 hour number to report soon.

[Lamoral]

Biden needs to give it up. That’s the main takeaway from that goddamn debate. ANYONE but Biden. There is no way in hell he can get it done, if his performance in that debate is any indication. He was consistently shown up by literally EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE. This guy is old, tired, weak, confused, pathetic, half-assed, lame, and every other goddamn bad word you can call someone, he’s a shit candidate, if he’s the nominee we are gonna have 4 more years of Donald Trump. He needs to quit NOW. He’s worthless.

[Lamoral]

Swallwell is a worthless forgettable ghost of a man, he’s John Edwards 2.0, give it the fuck up, man. You don’t have a shot, stop wasting everyone’s time. Hickenlooper is as loopy as his name suggests, give it the fuck up. Williamson reminds me of Dianna Troi and I want to see as much of her as possible.

[Kolak_of_Twilo]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Some more thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:

While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let’s face it: presidential campaign politics is at LEAST 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don’t know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it’s not anything new, and as a restult it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it’s why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There’s a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively 100% need to win over to win the White House.

I don’t have any quibbles with this post and I don’t think Joe Biden is in any way racist. However, watching him tonight I do have serious concerns. There was something about his manner and reaction to what was happening that made me feel he is in some sort of decline, whether physical or mental. I’ve seen similar things with older friends and relatives.

I’m not making predictions about Biden’s health but tonight was the first time I have seen him come across as seriously old man. I haven’t seen much of him in the last two years and I believe something has seriously changed in a way that makes me question his fitness for the office. Maybe that will change as we go forward, maybe not. But I am concerned if he is up to the challenge ahead.

[Lantern]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Some more thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:

While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let’s face it: presidential campaign politics is at LEAST 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don’t know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it’s not anything new, and as a restult it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it’s why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There’s a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively 100% need to win over to win the White House.

Agree with this. I like Booker quite a lot but I was listening to his interview on the Argument podcast yesterday and I was struck at how much he framed his policies through the lens of race. This is in sharp contrast to Obama who was very careful when talking about the race. The Democratic base has shifted dramatically to the left but the rest of the electorate hasn’t to nearly the same extent and this is going to be a real problem for candidates who define themselves through woke messaging.

Harris had a great moment but what does it really mean? Does she support federally mandated busing which AFAIK still remains an unpopular policy? If she doesn’t then that exchange was empty verbiage. If she does, she is providing yet another juicy target for Republicans in the general, as if abolishing private health insurance isn’t enough.

[SlackerInc]

@Kolak_of_Twilo

I don’t have any quibbles with this post and I don’t think Joe Biden is in any way racist. However, watching him tonight I do have serious concerns. There was something about his manner and reaction to what was happening that made me feel he is in some sort of decline, whether physical or mental. I’ve seen similar things with older friends and relatives.

I’m not making predictions about Biden’s health but tonight was the first time I have seen him come across as seriously old man. I haven’t seen much of him in the last two years and I believe something has seriously changed in a way that makes me question his fitness for the office. Maybe that will change as we go forward, maybe not. But I am concerned if he is up to the challenge ahead.

I agree, but I would just add that no one should be surprised. Being in your late seventies is a lot different for most people than being 65-70 like in his last couple races. He is just plain too old, and he would be quite a bit older by the end of his putative presidency.

[asahi]

I wonder if the biggest loser in the debates wasn’t the democratic party itself.

The danger that the Democrats face is increasingly is having to deal with a party that is fractured along the lines of identity politics.

Kamala Harris most certainly stood out as the winner of last night’s debate from the perspective of the hard partisans, but how did she win? She won by insinuating that the party’s dominant front-runner may have a racist bone in his body after all. Whether she said those words or meant that doesn’t matter – she made Joe Biden, the party’s front runner, look pathetically weak and put him on the defensive just by having to talk about the issue. To be sure, Biden probably has other problems than just fending off charges of sympathizing with segregationists but that’s not the point. The point is, winning the democratic nomination will likely involve beating each other up over who’s the real champion for social justice, and that’s not a fight Democrats want to carry into the general election. They will get fucking destroyed if that is their cause.

And here’s the thing: it’s utterly ridiculous to go there, because Joe Biden served as Barack Obama’s sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Most white centrists, whom the progressives will need to win control of the federal government whether they realize it or not, probably came away with the debates disappointed.

As much as I hate to say it, the real winner of the debates…was Donald Trump.

[WillFarnaby]

@Lantern

Harris had a great moment but what does it really mean? Does she support federally mandated busing which AFAIK still remains an unpopular policy?

This was my thought, it was all very strange. Was Harris coming out for busing or what?

The thing is, Kamala “Mass Incarceration” Harris has by far the most frightening history of the whole lot. Sadly I doubt that the Democrats I have seen will have the backbone or the skills to call her out.

[asahi]

@WillFarnaby

This was my thought, it was all very strange. Was Harris coming out for busing or what?

The thing is, Kamala “Mass Incarceration” Harris has by far the most frightening history of the whole lot. Sadly I doubt that the Democrats I have seen will have the backbone or the skills to call her out.

I think that she’s going to get it in the next debate. Biden will try to land some punches, but I don’t know if he can. The problem with being a senator and serving in an administration for as long as he has is that he’s got a pretty long record that’s easy to pick apart.

Obama was a senator barely 2 years. It was hard to pick apart his voting record because he didn’t have any. His most important decisions were probably what positions to support in public access TV interviews. Biden, OTOH, has a record of getting things done, but it’s easy to distort his record.

[Covfefe]

Andrew Yang’s name recognition is going to spike after that debacle.