Um, no. “Ethnic cleansing” means removal of people from an area, so that it is “cleansed” of a particular group, at the instigation of some outsider. The “removal” is sometimes by killing them, but that’s not a necessary part of the definition - deportation will do as well.
Calling for an identifiable group of people to get the hell out of where they happen to live is not, by any stretch of the imagination, similar to criticizing the actions of a state’s government.
Hi Alessan!
If you were to declare yourself anti-Palestinian, would that mean you disagree with Palestinian claims and politics, or would that mean that you would not want a Palestinian neighbor? Do you think someone could claim to be anti-Israel without being an anti-Semite?
Also, this is kind of a hijack, but what is the average Israeli take on the whole Israel-Palestine debacle? Do most people just want to be done with fighting and get on with living together already, or are people ok with the fighting because they agree with the end-goal, or is there even such thing as an “average Israeli” take on the whole thing?
Thank you!
love,
yams!!
Criticism of Israel is not grounded in any feelings about national origin, ethnicity or any thing related to genetic, cultural or religious identity. It’s criticism of actions and policies. It’s not hostility towards an ethnic identity but a disagreement with behavior. That’s the difference. It is illegitimate to try to deflect criticism of behavior by trying to pretend it’s an attack on race.
Did you support the apartheid regime in South Africa?
she said “should” and she wasn’t calling for anyone to do anything.
if you’re going to play games with inflammatory terms like “ethnic cleansing” then i’m going to play semantic counter games.
The UN did establish racial entitlement. I don’t see how that’s debatable. The ethnic cleansing and apartheid, Israel did mostly on its own.
No, the argument is that Palestinians should not have had land taken away and copntinue to have land taken away that they owned and own currently, not in some distant, mythological past.
Tell that to the State of Arizona.
Well, yeah, but as Alessan points out, Israel just has to wait out the last survivors and then the problem will be gone.
She didn’t say that they should be forced to leave. She said they should fuck off on their own.
At her age, I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel still seems like a brand new state to her, full of freshed faced immigrants. Her statement doesn’t make logical sense anymore, but I think that’s because it’s still 1948 in her mind.
Worked for America. We’re just following your lead.
Telling the Jews to get the hell out of Israel isn’t by any stretch of the imagination a critique of the “actions and policies” of the Israeli state. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a disagreement over Israel’s “behaviour” as a nation, and pretending it does isn’t so much “illigitimate” as it is simply bizzare.
So if I say “the Mexicans should get the hell out of Arizona and go back where they came from”, I’m not calling for ethnic cleansing of Mexicans from Arizona in your view - because I’m simply suggesting that they leave on their own?
So, “Mexicans - get the hell out of Arizona!” isn’t in any way offensive to you? Doesn’t raise any concerns?
A "lefty’ who says something stupid gets fried by the press and loses her job. Is that not enough for you? Is dancing on graves a fun sport?
You can wave your hands about it all you want, but the context makes it clear that Thomas was referencing the formation of the state by Europe and the US, and that was the primary action she was hostile to.
Trying to deflect her comments as antisemitism or bigotry is candy-ass in my opinion. Israelis and Israel defenders would do much better if they actually took the criticisms head on for what they are. People in the US see Palestinians behind barbed wire fences and Israeli tanks pointed at children. If you want us to keep giving Israel money and support, explain why we should be ok with those things, don’t just call us racists and then ask us for more money.
That is correct.
It doesn’t raise any concerns for the same American conservatives who are crowing about Helen Thomas.
I’m not going to accuse the person who made that statement of calling for an ethnic cleansing, no.
Fine - completely bizzare, but fine.
Now for the follow-up - do you see anything at all offensive in such a statement?
Let’s not take this analogy for more than it is. Dio’s reference to the AZ law is only addressed at illegal immigrants. Arizona has a large number of citizens of Hispanic decent, and those are not being asked to leave. I don’t think it’s reasonable to call the deportation of illegal immigrants “ethnic cleansing”.