Does this fine piece of argument apply to the artwork stolen by Nazi’s in WW2 and then returned to dead people’s relatives? :rolleyes:
Again, what is really entertaining is how hollow any discussion re: Israel is. Whatever the outcome, rest assured Israel will be painted as a victim using arguments that inevitably come down to the same common denominators and while principles espoused sound great in general, they only apply specifically to Israelis. No other people are worthy of those principles for one or another reason.
I don’t think “offended” is the right word. I don’t get offended by much of anything. I’d call it stupid.
It’s not really analogous to Israel, though, because Mexicans haven’t taken over the government, established Arizona as a Mexican state with special entitlements for Mexicans only, forced native born, non-Mexican Americans off their own land and ghettoized them behind barbed wire fences. If the Mexcans did all that, I’d want them to go back where they came from too.
The analogy here would be to requesting the deportation (or I suppose the “voluntary leaving” ) of all persons of Hispanic discent - that would be a parallel to requesting that the Jews go “back to where they came from”.
Pretty much the entire Middle East consists of countries “made up” by the Powers That Were after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. Israel was a bit of a latecomer, as a country, but was created by the United Nations. Wars were fought, and we have facts on the ground now. This isn’t really different than many other countries out there.
If we had it to do over again, would I endorse another option? Maybe. But that’s immaterial to the present. Israel isn’t going away without a bloody, bloody war that almost certainly would involve the entire Middle East, with the West being drawn is as well. We’re not going there.
Is it at all possible that she knew exactly what she was doing?
Any chance that she had already decided to retire, said to herself “Fuck it, I’m going out with a bang,” and said something she’s probably thought for years but knew she couldn’t utter in public?
You’re doing it again. In America we call this “playing the rcae card.”
Did you read upthread where I said that my biological father is Jewish? No, I’m not empathizing, and suggesting I’m an antisemite myself does not do anything to dispel my perceptions that you’re deflecting with the race card.
For the record, I think antisemitism is not only toxic and vile, but utterly moronic and senseless from an intellectual standpoint, as is all other racial bigotry. I am incapable of empathizing with it.
Strikes me that what you are saying is that it may be stupid, but it’s understandable - in your view, based on the narrative you believe is accurate and unbiased.
This doesn’t distinguish it from most other forms of bigotry, though. Most bigotry is, in fact, understandable. Most bigots think that their bigotry is perfectly rational, a reaction to reality, rather than simply based on irrational and overblown generalizations.
I’m not claiming that you are empathizing with being an antisemite. I’m saying you are taking to heart a specific criticism of this person’s statements under discussion, what with this “don’t just call us racists” crap. You are empathizing too much with her.
You aren’t under discussion, no-one is calling you a racist, and the fact you have Jewish ancestors is totally irrelevant.
No, it’s not bigotry. If the Mexicans did everything I described above, I wuldn’t be hostile to them and wantthem to leave because they’re Mexicans, but because of their behavior.
Thomas’ mistake was in not drawing a distinction between what she perceived as invading Europeans and indigenous Israeli Jews (and yes, I know that even that distinction is all but non-existent now after 60+ years), but I think that was a result of sloppy articulation on her part. That particular comment ahd followed directly from a comment about what she perceived as the arrogance of the west in forming the state of Israel in the first place, and “they should go back” stemmed from that thought.
Sorry, but you have started a new controversy entirely based on your assertion that Israelis are an ethnic group. You asserted that Israelis were an ethnic group. I asked if that was so because I was curious. First you demand that I define ethnic group, which I did, and then you decide that reliance on proper authorities is an inappropriate way to have a discussion on what an ethnic group is, which is not a reasonable way of having a discussion on whether a group of people is an ethnic group. I was actually curious as to whether Israelis as an ethnic group was a real concept I had somehow missed. It is apparently something you made up entirely, in which case I say, good for you. Write a scholarly article on it, have it published in an anthropological journal and then you are on your way to having others repeat your science and have it recognized.
I asked a question about whether Israelis were an ethnic group. It seems to be a concept original with you, which somewhat answers the question I was asking. I was not looking for a debate on whether Israelis were an ethnic group.
In a Democracy the people themselves are responsible for the actions of the government. All the people, even the opposition. Thus, the American people are responsible for torture of suspected Al Queda members. We have the power to stop it and we do not cry out sufficiently loud. Same with Israel. Not the same with North Korea. The people have no say with no power and not even theoretical sovereignty. I am anti-Israeli because of their ethnic cleansing policies. Should they stop these policies, I would cease being anti-Israeli.
And it continues to be, as it always will be, a source of shame for us and bitterness for the descendants of the Indians. Only in the last few decades have we started to make reparations, recognize and enforce their property rights, and undertake affirmative action efforts of any significance to make it possible to set the old antagonisms aside and live as a true national community.
I hope you do “follow that lead”, but that you learn from that example and all the countless other historical examples that somehow you deny apply to your own example (while still complaining that Israel is being asked to follow rules nobody else is, rules you fail to articulate. :rolleyes: ).
) of all persons of Hispanic discent - that would be a parallel to requesting that the Jews go “back to where they came from”.