Help Daddy not freak out.

Before I read the other replies I must respond to ** Hippy Hollow ** Thanks man, now you have me more afraid then I was before I started this thread. :wink:
She does unfortunately like alcohol just like her old man, so I’m now thinking that a car is maybe not the best idea for a Freshman. I’m sure she will moan and groan about that but tough.

I realize 18 hours is a large course load but since we don’t expect her to get a job at this point, I think it is reasonable.

She either wants to be a field biologists or a veterinarian. Fortunately she excels in biology/chemistry type classes, so at least she knows what she is good at.

Eighteen hours is completely reasonable. Much less and she’d be dabbling in college. A freshman with a car finds herself making friends who are into drugs and alcohol and/or who think they need to be driven cross country at a moment’s notice to prevent a high school boyfriend/girlfriend from making a terrible mistake. A car is, for a freshman - especially a young, female, on-campus freshman - especially if she has any people-pleaser tendencies - far more a vehicle of drama than a vehicle of convenience.

If you aren’t familiar with the campus, go there and figure out how much travelling she’ll need to do before deciding whether to buy her a car. Keep in mind that if she’s not driving herself around, somebody will be driving her around. Chances are your daughter is probably more responsible than that someone.

Also, if you want her to visit home often (and you will), she’ll obviously be much more inclined to do so if she’s got a car. I don’t know how far UMO is from St. Louis, but presumably it’s not in walking distance.

Places she’ll probably need (or want) to go that aren’t on campus: local pizza place, nearest mall/shopping center, wherever the nearest Bed, Bath and Beyond-type store is, Wal-Mart/Target, grocery store, popular not-21-and-up nightclub (depending on her inclinations).

You watch way too many movies. :smiley:

I went on exactly five road trips that took more than two hours in college and three of those were for spring break.

If she wants to be a vet–or even have the option–she needs to understand that she does not have the luxury of a bad semester. In almost any other field, a 3.25 is fine, but if you want to go to vet, pre-med, or law school, anything under a 3.5 gets problematic and you need a 3.75 if you want to have choices. Test scores can give you some wiggle room, but it’s a whole different pool of standardized test takers: unless she broke 2300 on the SAT, I wouldn’t depend on test scores to buoy up weaker grades.

Remember, this was the most competitive year for undergraduate admissions ever. It isn’t much of a stretch to see that professional schools will have huge applicant pools in 4 years.

Thank you all for the informative replies! I will try to respond to everyone else this evening if I have a decent wireless connection in Little Rock AR.
I have e-mailed this thread to my ex wife and I’m curious about her thoughts on this as well.
Please keep the advice coming.

Mom here, with two already in college and a freshman female starting in August.

What pops out immediately at me is…

If she doesn’t need to work, then why are you supplying her with a car? Is she not living on campus? Are bicycles not adequate?

IMHO, giving her a car if she doesn’t really need it is babying her, and also in my humble and even more paranoid maternal opinion, is likely to make her even more of a target for horny college males, being not only “fresh meat”, but also possessed of that magical item, a car. Frank Zappa’s “would I lie to you just to get into your pants?” added to, “Would I lie to you just to use your car to take you to this rock concert? And then get into your pants…”

We discussed giving La Principessa a car to use this fall and nixed it on precisely those grounds. If she’s going to fall in love during her vulnerable freshman year, we want her to fall in love with someone who’s really interested in her, not in the fact that she’s (a) new, (b) naive, and (c) has a car.

…so her big brother Bonzo is going to have the car at his apartment, for his senior year, for his use, having paid some serious dues by riding a bike his first three years. And thus she will have the use of it, but any horny college boys who wanna hit on this particular lassie in order to use her [dad’s] car will have to go through a former wrestler who although a feminist, turns out to have some surprisingly male chauvinist attitudes regarding his kid sister. :smiley:

But other than that…yanno, you just gotta let 'em go. Let them make their own mistakes, stand by ready to bail them out from total disasters as needed, but otherwise, it’s like the first day of kindergarten, and you just gotta drop them off at school and then go home, and trust them to take your good upbringing and use it.

It’s not easy, I’m here to tell you that, but it’s just something that has to be done.

I would not worry too much about what you perceive as your daughter’s emotional immaturity and being a follower rather than a leader, and trying to extrapolate that to possible future events. I’d go by what behaviors you have observed so far: ask yourself, is she the sort of person that when everybody else is chugging Jello shots, she’ll just grin and join in out of fear of being “different” or the oddball? Or if everybody else is chugging Jello shots, but she isn’t really in the mood for Jello shots, would she be more likely to stand back and go, “no thanks”?

If the latter, then I wouldn’t worry. If the former, you can go ahead and worry, but there’s not going to be a damn thing you can do about it, so you might as well resign yourself to it. Like I said, you gotta let 'em go, and keep your fingers crossed.

Comfort yourself with statistics, like I do: for every college kid who accedes to a hazing request and kills himself by drinking a fifth of Vodka, or locks himself in the janitor’s closet and is electrocuted, there are thousands upon thousands who don’t. The vast–VAST–majority of college kids make their way safely, even tediously, through their four years, having formative experiences and acquiring some new life skills along the way, and emerge at the other ends as (mostly) adults. :smiley:

In my experience, “joiners” tend to do better their freshman year than “loners”, because colleges, especially big universities, have lots of experience at the ways in which freshmen can go astray, like partying, etc. So they have tons of freshman activities lined up for that whole first semester; virtually every day there are things planned, and the weekends are packed with “stuff to do”. So if she’s a joiner, she’ll find lots of venues for her social tendencies. You can encourage her to go out for even the most esoteric and boring-sounding activities, things like glee clubs and whatnot. Even if she spends an hour being bored to death at a Young Republicans or Young Democrats coffee, this will help her make new, useful friends (present it to her as “networking”), and will keep her out of mischief, and give her stuff to think about other than that kewl party this weekend.


A big university will have enough on-campus stuff (including, sometimes, Pizza Hut) that she shouldn’t need to go off-campus at all her freshman year for anything except Wal-Mart or church, and if she does need to go to Wal-Mart, or church, she can either get a ride with somebody (more networking), or walk, or bike, or ride a bus if they have them. We didn’t see it as a great hardship for Bonzo to spend his first three years basically within the confines of the University of Illinois (two years in a dorm and his junior year in an apartment close to campus), mainly because Urbana has an excellent bus system. If he really needed to go to Wal-Mart, he could ride a bus, or catch rides with people, or shop when he came home for occasional visits. It’s all part of the problem-solving aspect of growing up; adults don’t expect to have things handed to them on a platter, they’re expected to figure out for themselves how they’re going to get new underwear, or go to church, or travel to that party.

Really, she doesn’t need to be in the typical American “wheels available at all times” mode.


If she’s going to be living in a dorm, I’d definitely think about getting her a meningitis vaccination, if the school doesn’t already require it.


Second that if she wants to go to vet school, yeah, she does not have the luxury of a bad semester. Bonzo started out as pre-vet, and immediately found that vet schools, being scarce, can afford to be picky, and after two bad semesters, he basically gave up on the whole idea of being a veterinarian. Which was too bad, but as he had also discovered the fairly high “ick” factor involved in being a vet (wait till she meets the Fistulated Cow), it wasn’t that huge a trauma.

Nah. I was a seventeen year old people-pleaser freshman with a car.

The part that troubles me the most is taking 18 credits.

It’s important to gain confidence in the beginning by doing well.

I think both the car and the allowance are babying her.

College is kind of a transition - it’s usually a kid’s first taste of self-sufficiency. There are no parents there to enforce rules or schedules, and it’s going to be up to your daughter to manage her time and activities. Her success or failure in those classes is going to be due to her own work, and that’s an important lesson for her to learn, but I’m not sure it’s enough on its own.

In real life, increased freedom comes with increased responsibilities. If you’re paying her tuition, paying for her meals, and providing a car and allowance, then there’s no increase in her responsibilities. Sure, she’ll be responsible for her schoolwork, but high school honors students are (generally speaking) already responsible for that. You don’t want to load her up with too much, so you make sure she can eat and sleep - you’re already footing the bill for tuition and room and board, so you’re good there. But if she wants to go out to eat with her friends or go see a band in a club, that should be on her, especially if she’s forgoing the meal plan that you’ve already paid for.

I don’t think any college freshman needs a car unless she’s attending a commuter school or working off-campus. It just seems like the negatives outweigh the advantages, especially since most college towns I’ve been to have plenty of stuff within walking distance. On the campus where I work (I’m a grad student), you can walk or take a free bus to just about anything you might need. The headaches associated with parking, insurance, potential accidents and DUIs just don’t seem worth it to me.

I was a TA during my graduate studies at a large University and it’s easy to get lost academically, if you aren’t careful. Classes can be huge and there can be long waiting lists to get into the most popular or most required classes. I’m sure it’s gotten better with electronic scheduling, but she should still make sure she gets plenty of help with planning her courses.

She should also be getting to know the TAs and take advantage of office hours as much as she can. I only worked for spending money when I was in college, but it was a real advantage to me to get a job as an assistant to one of the professors there. I learned all the ins and outs of the library system and how research is actually done, plus I had a reference for grad school who actually knew me as more than a face in the crowd.

I don’t think she should work (or have to work) while in school, but why doesn’t she have a summer job? What (exactly) is she going to do with herself all summer?

I quintuple the she doesn’t need a car on campus. Walking is great exercise and builds character. Most college kids walk everywhere or take the campus bus etc–a car is really a liability due to parking, vandalism and constant hits up for a ride to the store/concert/home/road trip/can I have your keys-love ya babe type stuff.

My daughter is also off to school in the fall. She is probably more mature than 16, but at most 17 (chronologically she’s 18). We are giving her a monthly allowance out of her college fund and into her checking account. No car (she’s going to college in Boston–a car would be a nightmare). She’s getting a laptop for her HS graduation present. She’s had a job while in the honors/AP program for the past 3 years. She will continue to work until July 1 and then she is taking some time off (fine by us–she’s earned it. When else in life will she be able to do so?) to go on canoe trips and weekend trips with friends–on her earned dime.

I vote for your daughter getting a summer job–I know that’ll be available as of July 1! :wink:

My two oldest start school this fall. Neither gets a car, nor an allowance. I agreed to pay tuition, and room and board, below a certain amount, and they cover everything else. Obviously, I think that’s better than giving them an allowance and a car. (Plus, I have 5 kids. No way they all get a car!)

To be honest, booze, sex, and rock will happen. Maybe drugs. I don’t worry about that. To the extent that I worry, I worry about things like emotional breakdowns or even suicide. The suicide rate in college is too high. I think my kids are as unlikely as anyone to have serious emotional problems, but I’m sure most parents are surprised.

IME, your kid will either be into booze/sex/drugs or suicide (or neither), so at least you don’t have to worry about both…

We have continued Bonzo’s normal allowance, which is $20 a week, and will continue to do so. This was because it was Mom’s feeling that he ought to have some pocket money for occasional Pizza Hut treats with friends, that he shouldn’t have to feel conflicted about spending his salary (he has been working throughout the proceedings as a pharmacy technician) on things like an occasional movie or pizza.

And we will continue to send her allowance, too. Both Hubby and I were broke college students, and had the unenviable experience of really having to choose whether or not to spend 50 cents on a plate of fries at the student hangout. We wanted to spare our kids that, at least.

We are not encouraging his sister to work during her freshman year, mainly because she is much more intense about grades than he is, and we’re afraid she’ll run herself to death. Also because she has signed up for Pre-Med, which is stressful enough. And partly because she doesn’t have a job she really likes or that would be worth the hassle of devoting a time slot to commuting on a bus to work–she’s just a minimum wage grunt at Best Buy, whereas he’s a senior pharmacy tech and really makes good money, considering.

I’m on the no job freshman year side. I was an A student in high school and found the transition to actually needing to study outside of class. . . difficult. Which isn’t to say I didn’t do it. But there’s enough adjusting going on the first year, especially the first semester, that a job would just complicate things needlessly.

The car thing depends on the campus. My parents didn’t let me take my car. (I had a car that I had earned as my pay for years of babysitting in lieu of being able to get a “real” job.)
The school I went to only had 7% of their student body living on campus - it was mostly a commuter school. There were NO ammenities near campus. The only things within walking distance of the dorms were, um, well, there was nothing. Not even a convenience store. (there was a lovely park wherein you could get all of your illegal drug transactions taken care of!) I really wished I had that car.
However, had I been at a typical school with the typical college town built up around it where I could buy toothpaste when necessary, I wouldn’t have needed a car. And obviously I did live without one for two whole years in spite of my continued bitterness.

When I went to school (back in the dark ages of the mid 90’s) there was much talk to all of us about how we were all to be “adults” now and be responsible for ourselves. I took that seriously, but my parents gave me the space to do so. They were there if I needed them, but I was responsible for my own laundry/meals/scheduling/etc. Which was why I was shocked to find that the reason we couldn’t get bottled softdrinks in the dining hall on our meal plan the 2nd year was because some parents complained that their little Johnny and Suzzie were subsisting on nachos and Coke.

You’ve got to cut the apron strings sooner or later. College is an ideal way to launch a kid and still be supportive. (but not TOO supportive) (and that’s easy for me to say because mine are still very small)

As a recent college graduate, I too recommend against 18 credits to start with. At my college, we were required to take 5 three-credit courses. 18 would be an overload.

Freshman year takes some getting used to, and making friends and learning life lessons outside the class room is the most important thing IMO. The stress from an extra class is not worth it.

True. And performing in animal porn on the internet for pocket cash is also fairly unlikely. Fairly.

Eighteen credits doesn’t necessarily mean more classes, though. I took 18 credits as a freshman (in 1993). It was still five classes, but some of the core engineering classes (math, chemistry, and physics, at least) were 4 credits each.

At the college I attended, and most colleges I’m aware of, 12 credits is considered full time. 18 is the maximum allowed credit load without special written permission.

18 credits would be a lot for a humanities major, but the hard sciences? The classes may be worth 4 credits, but we’re talking hours of class time – my science buddies usually had a lecture 2-3 times a week plus a 4 hour required lab, and that’s not even counting homework… for one class. Also, textbooks for a single class could run $200-400.

It just seems like a lot.

I’m not so bent out of shape about the car/not working, but it’s certainly not a necessity and it can lead to entitled behavior and attitudes. Many kids never get a dime of support from their parents, and they make it through just fine – though it does get problematic when the parents have a high income but won’t contribute toward college expenses, because most kids are required to fill out their parents income on the FAFSA anyways, therefore they have a high ‘‘expected contribution’’ but not a high ‘‘actual contribution.’’ I had more than a few friends screwed that way.

Random unrelated advice: Go ahead and pop for the Extra-long twin-size dorm sheets if the dorm beds require it. Bonzo, starting his first semester, concurred with me that bedding wasn’t important, and said he’d tough it out with regular-size twin sheets. So when he came home for Christmas, he admitted that the regular twin sheets invariably rode up, so we went out to Bed Bath & Beyond and got him some XL sheets. And since it was off-season, the only ones they had left were Kermit green.

So buy 'em early, if you’re gonna, and get a better color selection.