HELP —How can we compel my niece to come back to her family?

Nobody said your sister was complicit. What people have said is that she may have been complicit, or that your niece may (rightly or wrongly) perceive her as being complicit. What makes people so convinced that those things are possibilities is that both scenarios are painfully common in abuse cases. Family members often ignore or convince themselves they’re imagining or misinterpreting warning signs, or just outright accuse victims of lying because they can’t face the truth. And kids often think adults notice a lot more signs of bad situations than we do–abuse, bullying, learning disabilities, you name it–and assume since nobody’s doing anything that nobody cares.

And honestly, if you suffered through a horrific situation and the people who were supposed to love and protect you sat around with their thumbs up their noses doing nothing about it, would contact with those people honestly help you heal from your trauma?

It’s not uncommon for a child who is sexually abused to tell someone about it, and being told that s/he’s lying, or just trying to cause trouble. And even if s/he’s believed, quite frequently the response is to try to hush up the problem, not solve it. I know that at least a few SDMB posters have related their stories about abuse.

Sometimes Mom just doesn’t want to hear that Dad or Uncle or New Boyfriend is having sex with her daughter. Maybe she is financially dependent on the guy. Or maybe she just feels that having her daughter abused is a small price to pay for having Mr. Wonderful around. But it happens, a lot.

Even if Niece didn’t explicitly tell her mom that she was being abused, Niece might have expected Mom to pick up on it, fairly or unfairly.

Maybe she just doesn’t like her family members, you included. How can you state that none of you “did anything to her?” You might well have been doing stuff to her that you know nothing about, like trying to “compel” her to return to the foll she wants to avoid. Leave her the hell alone; she is an adult and she has every right to live her own life. In short, MYODB.

Try and exorcism: “The power of Christ compels you!”

I’d like to say one last bit of thanks for all the posters who chimed in to share their insight and advice. It’s been helpful. Others, not so much so.

I get the feeling that you aren’t really hearing what people are trying to say to you.

Remember, you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors in other families. My family, from all outward appearances, was the perfect family. Dad with a good job, one of the church elders, stay at home mom who was also a Sunday school teacher. First born was a son, then a daughter (me).

Behind closed doors was living hell. I remember one Sunday after church we went home for lunch, a roast dinner that my mom had made, before anyone had even had one bite, food was literally dripping from the ceiling onto me and my brother as we sat, alone, not eating, while my parents continued the fight elsewhere. He physically abused me and my brother, sexually abused me, and emotionally tortured all of us.

I think the reason your sister seen as complicit is because it’s very rare for abuse to be going on in a home and be totally secret. My mom knew about everything that was going on and didn’t save us.

You said that nobody has mentioned anything to you about any sexual abuse but yet you also said that it’s suspected. Suspected by who? Who told you about it? Maybe she knows you all know and she feels so ashamed because she still thinks it’s her fault.

Everything your sister has lost, your niece has also lost. Plus she may have also been abused on top of it.

Have some compassion for your niece, she’s probably going through hell right now.

If there’s anything I would hope you take away from the thread, it’s that cutting off one’s family is not inherently crazy or counterintuitive to the healing process. Even if your niece doesn’t blame your sister in any way for what happened.

People, even ones who are well-meaning, can unwittingly say some really stupid shit to victims of abuse. People who’ve never been abused tend to get really uncomfortable in situations where they know abuse has occurred, particularly to someone they care about. Not infrequently, conversations on the topic turn to assuaging the guilt of the other person instead of being about the victim. So even if your niece doesn’t blame your sister for what happened, that does not mean she isn’t still justified in choosing to go this alone.

As someone who was abused by my father as a child, and who had several friends with the same problem–

Our mothers all knew. They either saw the abuse, or we told them. We all got one or more of the following responses:

  1. “I don’t believe you.”
  2. “You’re making too much of this.”
  3. “Your dad is just like this, and we have to put up with it because he’s family.”
  4. “You did something to make him act that way.”
  5. “Are you asking me to divorce him? I can’t. I’m financially dependent on him. Our standard of living would go down. So there’s nothing I can do.”
  6. Nothing said, but Mom saw the signs and looked the other way.

Because you weren’t present in the home every single day with them, you don’t know the whole story of what went on. It’s entirely likely your sister did one or more of the above. Not 100% certain, but it’s probable.

And if this happened, your niece has a legitimate reason to be angry.

And even if your sister was totally clueless, your niece may still feel like her mom failed to protect her. She may feel that your sister was willfully in denial about what was going on. Maybe she feels that the extended family saw the signs but condoned his behavior.

Her perspective is different than yours. Give her time and space to work out her feelings.

Should have said “possible” instead of “probable.”

I don’t think the reason is even that rational: I think that in many cases it comes down to “I don’t want this to be true. Please, god, make this not be true”. Unfortunately, to a terrified, miserable kid who is not so much telling their mom as they are dropping very broad hints (because they are too scared to come out and say it), the reaction of “God, please let me be misunderstanding her” comes across as “Child, please don’t tell me about this”, and the child gets the message loud and clear and learns to keep their mouths shut. The mother comforts herself with “If it were true, she’d tell me” and the child thinks “I told her and she blew me off”.

The mother is still culpable in cases like that–part of being a parent is not letting yourself just not think about things–but it makes more sense to me that a lot of this stuff happens in the lizard brain, the raw emotional reaction part, not that a mom actually, consciously knows what is happening down the hall and has rationally decided to let it happen. I mean, I am sure that happens as well, but I think more often people instinctively retreat to willful ignorance than deliberately evil choices.

Quoted for truth.

I too immediately assumed, upon reading the thread title, that there was sexual abuse involved. I legally emancipated when I was 17 and everybody in my family thought I had lost my freakin’ mind, despite the fact that they all knew my mother was mentally ill. You would think that when word got out that my adopted father was sexually abusing me (word got out against my will - long story), they would be all too happy to recognize that I really needed to get out of that household. But no. It was ‘‘You should have known better’’ and ‘‘This is all your fault’’ and ‘‘Why are you being so selfish?’’ and ‘‘You must be crazy.’’ In fact, my mother tried to get me declared mentally incompetent, and I was so confused at that point that I was willing to let her do this - thank god my therapist put her foot down.

The next six years (six years) were spent trying to keep my distance from this man, who was married to my mother, trying to keep my boundaries when everybody was telling me I should move along, forgive and forget. My mother so desperate to ‘‘just be a family again.’’ When my mother had a different perspective every day - ‘‘Why don’t we just have him take a lie detector test, then we’ll know for sure.’’ Finally, I had to cut myself off from my mother. I was a barely functional mess and it was my last-ditch attempt to find some happiness. It totally worked. I got better. A year later, she divorced him and sent me a card asking for us to have a relationship again. And I agreed. And while she still has some serious issues, our relationship is much more one between equals, and she respects my boundaries in a way she never did.

Losing someone you thought you could trust (my Dad) is hard enough - it’s a million times harder when everybody is bending over backward to rationalize and minimize your pain. I have no doubt, OP, that your sister has been through hell, but you seem completely oblivious to the reality of your niece’s situation. Sometimes things get so thick and heavy that you can’t deal with anybody else’s drama - and while your sister may be a lovely person, there is no question that she’s got some serious drama of her own going on.

And it’s easy - so easy - to feel betrayed in a situation of abuse. I am incredibly close to my own Aunt - she took me into her home when I emancipated, she is the first family member I told, and she supported me 100% - but I STILL feel a sense of betrayal I cannot reconcile with, because she was there the entire time I was growing up. She had no idea about my adopted Dad but she knew my Mom was nuts, and everybody in my family is so terrified of my mother they refused to stand up to her. Even though she is my best friend, and I talk to her every weekend, and I love her to pieces, sometimes I think about those years I suffered and it just hurts. (I would never tell her this - she did everything she could - my point is not to minimize her support but to explain that even though she did everything possible, it still didn’t feel like enough, because abuse fucking sucks.)

Before you can even begin to help your niece, you need to open your mind to the possibility that your family isn’t as wonderful as you think. Your niece is a grown woman, she has a right to do what she needs to do to sort through all of this. If she ever comes to you, and she feels betrayed, you need to hold it. If she feels angry with your sister, you need to hold it. I get a strong sense from your OP that you’re not willing to hold any of that right now, you just want to smooth things over and make them right. Some things are never made right.

:smiley:

When people say shit like this it just means “thank you for the advice i agree with and fuck all the rest” and just proves to everyone that you haven’t listened to a damned thing anyone has told you.

And let’s not ignore the fact that, despite whatever positive qualities your sister has, she married an asshole. That in itself is reason enough for her child to feel angry.

Whose healing?

And in a Jack Handey sorta way, I thought “and if someone else comes in, because you left the door unlocked, maybe they’ll be fun, too!” :smiley:

If you even try to “compell” her to do anything, the most likely result is you’ll lose her permanently.

Also, Holy Fuck – if there was in fact “inappropriate contact” between her father and her, let the poor girl work it out as she needs to. That’s the highest priority, and there’s not a time-limit on this. She’s gone through an extremely traumatic experience, and it may take years to heal.

You may also just have to deal with the fact that healing, for her, involves never contacting any of you again. That’s not selfish; abuse is NOT TRIVIAL. And it very often has collateral damage to the rest of the family. She’s doing what she needs for herself; at the VERY least she is going to need time to deal with her own shit, without dealing with how upset her mom or you are. Right now, most likely, she CAN’T deal with more than that – she can’t deal with you or mom being all confused and demanding space in her head as you do in the OP. And yeah, I think demanding that space in her head, when she clearly needs to deal with her own stuff, is the selfish act, not what your niece is doing.

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the guy who victimized her, not your niece.

Honestly I can’t believe how unsympathetic your OP was. Way to blame the victim.

This is true. My mom married three consecutive assholes, one of whom was my own dad, and I am still dealing with feelings of resentment towards her for putting me through a bunch of shit in my childhood that could have easily been avoided by not marrying assholes. I know that’s unfair, and I give her full props for getting out of those relationships eventually, but still, it’s something that’s hard to let go of.

At this point your niece does not have enough trust for contact with anyone in her family. Hopefully, she is in the hands of a good therapist, who will nurse that trust back, create healing, and reintroduce her mother into her life if its appropriate. Or, hopefully, your niece make those choices herself. But you have to trust that will occur. You can’t make it occur, your sister can’t make it occur. Justified or not, trust has been broken in such a way that at your end, and your sisters, the only way to reestablish trust is to be patient and respect your nieces wishes without argument or question. Pushing - in any way - arguing - in any way, is only going to be seen as disrespecting her wishes, proof that she cannot trust her family.