Please, dopers, I need some advice! Over lunch this weekend with my dad and his wife, she told me that she’s going to be starting a new business - selling Protandim vitamin supplements. I politely but skeptically listened to her spiel and silently resolved to do some checking into the company. No surprise, but it looks at best like a totally worthless waste of money and at worst like a multi-level marketing scam. She and my dad do not have any money to spare, most certainly not on something like this.
For a variety of reasons, she and I have a polite but strained relationship. I’d like to broach the subject with her, but I’m afraid she’ll perceive whatever I say as attacking or undermining her. How do I prevent her from getting involved in this, without her hating me? I would like to do this without dragging my dad into this, since 1) we also have a very strained relationship and 2) I don’t want to create or exacerbate problems between them or between my dad and me.
If your relationship with her is already strained at best, any attempts you make to talk her out of it will fall on deaf ears or be construed as an attack on her person.
If your relationship with your dad is strained too, he will automatically take her side. All you can do is politely decline any attempts they make to draw you in, and IF ASKED stress the facets of it that seem too good to be true. But you can’t stop them.
I’m afraid that there really is no way to convince this woman that she’s wrong. She WANTS to believe in this product, she WANTS to believe that she’s gonna get rich by selling it, and the people who will be her upline are all very convincing and charming, and they all have a lot of success stories. Even if the two of you were bestest buddies, she’d be convinced that you’re jealous of her opportunity.
Ron White has a few words to say on the subject of choosing a spouse: Stupid Is Forever. Now, he may be a good ol’ boy, but he ain’t stupid.
If you feel a need to share what you’ve found, couch it in a more objective way.
*"I was intrigued by that company you were telling me about and decided to look them up on the internet. Here’s some of the information I found. I thought you might find it interesting and just wanted to pass it on.
As everyone said, you probably won’t be able to convince her, and given that your relationship is already strained, it’s probably not even worth trying.
But personally, I’d ask someone selling these vitamin supplements (or anything else someone is selling individually) how they’d be any better than anything currently available in a drugstore, supermarket, Walmart, GNC or any of a thousand other places such products are available at retail and online.
Is there anyone your father and his wife have a good relationship with who they will listen to, like another relative or a family friend? If so, I would express my concerns to that person and have them speak to your father and his wife. If not, I agree with the others, it’s probably beyond you to do anything for them directly.
I would print out the information and send it to them. Cover it with a note stating how interested you were hearing her talk about them, but that you’ve decided not to pursue it after all. Attach the article etc. by way of explanation. Don’t address your opinion about what she should/shouldn’t do.
It may help to stress your conviction that her sales skills are very good, and that you are sure she’ll be successful given the right product line. But only if you believe that to be true.
One thing I might try is to have a talk about setting a limit on how much they are going to lose.
“So, you might spend $4000 on this. Where is this money going to come from? How are you going to feel once it’s gone?” Etc.
Your side of the conversation should just flat out assume that all the money is going to go away. Every last cent. And you’re just being helpful in making sure they will be able to cope with the loss.
These schemes always have Svengalis that are very persuasive. You have to get them to doubt the Svengali. That is usually very Svengali specific. Find out the buzz words, misdirection techniques, etc. Then counter those. Usually these people had previous schemes that went belly up. So providing information on the last 3 get-rich-quick schemes they sold can sow the beginning of a doubt.
I wouldn’t be able to stand by and let a family member fall for this without trying to educate them (even one I disliked intensely). I’m on board with printing out something debunking the business model. What she does with the information is up to her, of course, but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t try.
Thanks for the advice, everyone, it’s very helpful. I have to drop by their house this weekend anyway, so I’m going to print out some info and suggest she read it on her own time. And then leave it at that. I know it probably won’t change anything, but I’d feel horrible if I did absolutely nothing.
I like the idea of presenting it objectively (“I was interested and I decided to look into it, this is what I found”) and maybe also saying that I’m sure she’s a good saleswoman and there are some other businesses she might be interested in if she wants to run her own company - Mary Kay or Pampered Chef or something.
I’m anxious and frustrated about this situation, but I’ll let you all know how it goes.
DCnDC - unfortunately my dad is a very socially isolated and lost most ties with people after my mom died. There are maybe a few family friends I could turn to for help, but I don’t think their word would be any more persuasive than my own. And, I hate to admit this, but I’m embarrassed that he married the sort of woman who would fall for this scheme and embarrassed that he either doesn’t recognize this or has chosen not to do anything about it. Ugh, dealing with grown-up problems is terrible.
You might also suggest they read the fine print on the first site you linked to. Not only that, but read between the lines of the fine print, you know, the part that says, this product don’t do shit but we will sell it as long as you suckers keep sending us money.
This, in an email, with a careless tone. Just a link to an appropriate website or two. You need to make it seem like you don’t care much and are not putting in any effort to dissuade because if you have a strained relationship, they will be defensive. Any position you strongly take, they will take the opposite. Let them discover, rather than you pointing out what you have discovered.
Printing stuff out is a big no no. It is very obviously way outside the norm and trying too hard. No one likes having stuff thrust upon them. They are unlikely to read it.
My brother once looked like he was going to get involved in something scammy and he can be very defensive about things I suggest because he has flashbacks to me being the older bossy brother pushing him round when we were kids.
I took the above approach and that was the end of that.
If these folks are anything like my parents, sending links via an email won’t work. They’re not internet-based in their daily lives, and sending information that way doesn’t have any credibility. Depending on them to click a link and follow information on a web page is an exercise in futility.
Handing them information that’s printed on paper, now that’s a credible way to relay information!
So, I guess it depends on their age and what really is normal for them. Over 60? Possibly paper is better. Obviously it depends on the people.