Help! I Can't Get My Older Dog To Get Along With New Puppy

Factual Questions
1

There had been an uneasy truce between my older dog and Polaris, the new puppy. There had been some growling, but I figured that was to be expected. Today, however, the shit hit the proverbial fan.

I’ve been trying to find treats that the puppy can eat-- most are too large or hard for her. When the puppy disregarded the treat I offered, I gave it to my older dog. As she was eating it, the puppy darted between her legs, possibly intent on reaching a toy. The older dog growled, and then lunged.

The puppy squalled in pain and fear. I lept up, grabbed the older dog’s collar, and tried to pull her back. She lunged forward again, and, panicked, I struck her. (I know I shouldn’t have, and I feel really bad about it, but I was very, very scared. She’s stronger than I am, and I could barely hold her back.) She stopped at that, and I took her to another part of the house and locked her away. The puppy was definitly bitten, because her fur was wet with saliva, but the teeth didn’t puncture her skin.

The puppy does not seem to be hurt. She’s playing normally, and doesn’t flinch when I press all over her body. There is no blood in her urine or stool, so I think she escaped physically unscathed. However, I’m getting very concerned that the puppy may be emotionally scarred by this.

Polaris is only six weeks old and this is her 11th day with us. My older dog is nine years old, and has been rather hostile to other dogs all her life because she never had much contact with them. She lived with another dog for a short period of time, eventually just coming to a truce because he was a submissive dog who let her rule the roost. I had hoped that a puppy might trigger a mothering instinct in her-- that she might accept it better because of how young and tiny she is. (Polaris is only two pounds, and is smaller than my adult dog’s head.)

Now, my older dog is sixty pounds, and very strong, so she could have killed the puppy easily with one bite had she wanted to-- the fact that she held back must account for something, right?

I’m at a loss. We’ve tried to reassure the older dog that she is loved, and that she has lost no status. (She is allowed on the bed-- the puppy is not.) We’ve tried to keep the puppy from innocently running toward the older dog, which seems to upset her (she growls when this happens). When the puppy plays, I sit on the floor beside her most of the time, and tell the older dog that she’s good when she comes over to investigate and doesn’t growl. I’d thought we were making progress, and then this happens.

What should I do? I’m really afraid the puppy will be traumatized by this and always be afraid of other dogs. (She’s already starting to show caution when the older dog approaches.) She’s not getting any positive interractions with other dogs. I don’t know anyone with a small dog or puppy that she can play with, and none of the daycare centers will allow her to come until she’s had her third round of shots at three weeks. Will it be too late by then?

Should I keep them completely seperated to avoid further trauma to the pup? Will my older dog eventually accept her? Is there anything I can do to encourage her to see this puppy as part of the family? When my older dog growls, I’ve been correcting her-- should I continue, or will this make her more hostile? How can I make the adult dog see interractions with the puppy as positive?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

2

For the most part, you have to let the dogs work it out themselves. Dogs are pack animals. One dog is always the leader - the alpha dog. It might take some time but the older dog will eventually accept the puppy. They may never become real friends, but they will establish a relationship as soon as the puppy learns to respect the older dog.

Older dogs often have issues with puppies because they’re old and tired and puppies get obnoxious. But I’ve never seen it not work out within 2 or 3 weeks.

I’ve had a lot of dogs (I have 3 now), and I’ve been a foster home to a lot of dogs. From my experience, the only time 2 dogs aren’t going to work it out is when they are both the same sex and there is a less than 30 pound size difference.

In the meantime, do what you have been doing - prevent the older dog from getting too rough and separate them when neccessary.

3

You’ll probably want to talk to a trainer or behavior specialist to be sure but there are a few things you can do that should help.

First off, it is actually ok for the dogs to growl and generally gripe at each other. Certainly you do not want to let this happen if it could rise to real violence but on the whole dogs are pretty good at sorting things out amongst themselves and need to establish themselves with each other. Breaking them up interrupts this normal settling of place and can keep the dogs on edge. It is also possible for dogs to fight to get your attention so watch out for that.

Be VERY careful of food, treats and toys when they are together! Indeed, you should keep them completely apart when they are eating and as you found the hard way give them treats separately (really separate).

Have the dogs do a sit and stay together for several minutes fairly near each other (a few feet).

Let the dogs run around together outside (if you have a fenced yard that’s great).

Spay/neuter the dogs (I know the puppy is too young for this yet but do it when you can).

Be sure to give each dog its own time. Grooming is great to do with each separately.

Hope that helps…I’ll write more if I think of anything else.

4

The older dog is spayed, and as soon as Polaris is old enough, we’re going to have her “fixed” too.

Right now, they can’t run together because of the snow. It comes up to Polaris’ chest where it hasn’t been stamped down, and she’s having a rough time getting around outside. Secondly, she tries to stay pretty close to me. Third, the adult dog has always been a rough player. She loved to tussle with the adult dog who lived with us for a while. He was much larger than she, but very gentle and submissive, so she couldn’t really hurt him. However, she did bite his ears hard enough to make him bleed a little once. I’m worried that she’d hurt the puppy without meaning to if we could get them to play. Polaris is only 1/30th her size, after all. She’d hurt the pup just by stepping on her.

The older dog had been laying near the puppy for a couple days now, but it’s not really a relaxed positition. Her ears are up, and she looks poised to leap up at the first sign of the puppy approaching her. Last night, we thought we had a breakthrough because we had the puppy on my lap, and the adult dog laying next to me. Tonight, though, I think she’s mad at me. She’s staying upstairs in our bedroom.

Will the pup be traumatized?

Will my adult dog really hurt her if given a chance?

5

It sounds to me like the older dog is the one who is scared. A new dog has turned up and is the Alpha dog’s (ie your) center of attention. You old dog is going to feel very out of place. It’s been demoted from no.2 dog to no.3, by a strange puppy. And for a pack animal, this is scary. It might sound crazy, but if you pay less attention to the new adorable fluffy puppy, you might be doing it a big favour.

6

We go through this with our dog and cat.

Our new dog trainer said (a) we need to teach our dog that we are the leaders, and part of this entails not letting her on the bed or the furniture - at least for now, until we get these other issues under control, and then we can let her up but ONLY by specific invitation; (b) we need to teach our dog that it is NEVER okay to play so roughly - if she goes after the cat we grab the dog by her collar and take her to another part of the house, and do that each and every time she lunges for him. When she DOESN’T go after the cat, we give her lots of praise and extra playtime.

Obviously we don’t want to jump up every 10 seconds when they’re really rambunctious, so at those times we tie the dog to the couch or bed, and keep the cat away from her, so she doesn’t feel teased.

Just some suggestions …

7

Are you sure that this wouldn’t make her feel as if her entire world is crumbling? We’ve been trying to keep things as normal as possible, trying to lessen her stress.

Perhaps I’m projecting, but it seems that this might make her feel as if her entire universe has spun out of control-- after being allowed on the bed for nine years, suddenly this puppy comes and all has changed.

8

It’s a bit of a tough call. Were the hackles on the older dog raised? That says something about how serious the older dog was when the pup got between her and her treat/toy. Some dogs are very possessive of treats and toys and get very upset if another dog tries to get one. Case in point: we took Jasper over to my BIL’s house to meet their new pound puppy. They were doing ok at first. Then Jasper (Mr. Piggy) saw a chewy toy on the floor and decided he wanted to play with it. The BIL’s dog went ballistic – hackles raised, serious snarling and snapping, etc. We separated the dogs and leashed them back up. We took any item that might be disputable (toys, cookies, etc.) out of the room, and let them start playing again. (We did keep them both on loose leash, just in case.)

They were fine after that. They wrestled and chewed (amiably) on each other’s ears. My BIL kept asking “Aren’t they being aggressive?” The answer was no, they were just playing rough puppy games. No hackles were raised, nobody was growling or looking nervous.

At home, Jasper has 3 older dogs to live with. Bouncer will play with him, but when he’s had enough, he lets him know in no uncertain terms. Bouncer shows teeth and growls, and snaps in the puppy’s direction. Sometimes Bouncer will take Jasper’s nose in his mouth. When that happens, Jasper rolls over and does the submissive puppy thing, and nothing bad happens.

Ivan won’t play with Jasper, but he doesn’t discipline him either. So Jasper jumps all over Ivan (or does until we make him stop), and generally thinks that Ivan is a big chew toy. Ivan’s starting to be a little more concerned when Jasper comes around his food, though.

Cammie, my oldest dog, just isn’t interested in the pup. She’s disciplined him a few times, at least once sending him yipe-ing to hide behind me. (he wasn’t hurt, just frightened.) So Jasper doesn’t bother her very much, and if she acts cranky, he pretty much leaves her alone now.

I wouldn’t worry about your puppy being traumatized. Puppies are pretty resilient. They learn dog manners from other dogs teaching them how to behave. Dog-on-dog teaching methods involve some behaviors that look scary to us, but may not actually be as bad as they look. BUT if your dog has food issues, and acts SERIOUSLY UPSET (hackles raised, etc.) about the pup coming by her, keep their food and toys separate. (It’s a little hard to know how serious your older dog’s behavior is without seeing the behavior.)

It’s been fascinating to watch Jasper finding his place in our little pack. Just remember – it’s up to YOU to be the real leader in the house. It’s okay to discipline your older dog, though like you say, hitting isn’t the most effective way of doing that.

Good luck – it sounds like Polaris is doing better. That’s a good thing!

9

More anecdotal evidence that your puppy needn’t be traumatized by this episode:
Awhile back we introduced a new spaniel puppy to a two-dog household that included the pup’s older sister (from another litter). The sister wasn’t all that pleased, but all was quiet for a few days until something set her off, and she picked up the pup by the scruff of the neck and shook him. Violently. (If there was such a thing as Shaken Pup Syndrome, he would have had it). We separated them, and the pup was very scared and crying. The upshot of all this was we were careful for awhile when the two of them were together, no further serious incidents occurred, and they eventually got on OK (though I think the sister always had a bit of a dominant role*). The male is outgoing with a great personality and no signs of timidity or aggressiveness as a result of his puppyhood trauma.

Try not to show too much apprehension when your dogs are together. They might pick up on your nervousness and be affected by it.

*She later “taught a lesson” to our Labrador retriever as a young pup, ripping a gash in the Lab’s ear that took awhile to heal. Again, no lasting harm done.

10

Yeah, you’re projecting. You might get some resistance from her if you change the rules, but dogs are pretty resilient. And they don’t generally have issues like people have. If you’re being a good role model for your dog (a good pack leader), the dog should just go “Ok, so that’s the way it is now.”

Dogs are pretty adaptable. But they do pick up on your worry and concern, so relax a little. Support your old dog, but they’ll eventually have to sort out who’s dominant for themselves.

11

I can’t remember if her hackles were raised or not. As scared as I was, I probably wouldn’t have noticed if she puffed up like a blowfish.

I do know that I haven’t seen any raised hackles at any other time when she growled at her, which, hopefully, is a positive sign.

This is the only food issue we’ve had. The older dog’s bowl is in the dining room, and is elevated on legs. The puppy couldn’t reach it if she tried, but she’s still not venturing far from me on her own, so it hasn’t been a problem.

She doesn’t seem to mind Polaris playing with her toys, either. She had left her favorite toy, a stuffed monkey, over near the area Polaris was playing. Polaris ventured toward it a couple of times, but I always moved her away from it. Finally, I let her approach it, because the adult dog was showing no signs of being irritated. She laid there while the puppy gnawed, watching quizzically, ears perked, head cocked to the side.

I’m still going to be very cautious with this one, because she was always toy-greedy with the other adult dog who lived with us. He had his own toys, but my dog wouldn’t allow him to play with them. Any time she saw him with a toy, be it hers or his, she would go over and take it from him. She wouldn’t even play with it!

On further reflection, I think that my tension may be contributing to the problem. My adult dog has always been ultra-sensitive to my anxiety. If a guest comes to the house which makes me nervous, she goes into guard dog mode. For example, if I have a guest who is afraid of dogs, my anxiety that the guest will be bothered seems to make her agressive. When a guest with whom I’m casually comfortable comes over, the dog greets them pleasantly, then goes and curls up on the rug. I’m sure that to her, I must seem a bundle of nerves right now, and she probably thinks this little brown puffball is causing it.

12

You’re right to keep an eye on them, and you’re probably right about the tension. Relaxed watchfulness is probably all you need.

13

While dogs do have a certain level of intelligence and emotions, and can be traumatized by years of abuse… i think you are giving a puppy WAY too much credit for the human qualities of emotional fragility, propagated by die hard liberals and PETA.

It’s a dog. It lives with another dog. As long as the bigger dog isn’t actively trying to KILL the puppy, i’m sure they’ll all get along fine after the Alpha dog role is firmly established.

14

In a dog’s mind …

There is a certain amount of affection in the world. Every bit of affection not given to ME is lost forever. Therefor I must protest when I see others receive affection that could have been MINE. :smiley:

15

This was in response to my suggestion that you enforce a sit/stay (or down/stay) on the dogs for several minutes each day. Despite the dogs lying near each other on their own I would still suggest you do this. Lying there on their own is far different from the pack leader (you) letting them know you expect something from them (sit, stay, no screwing around). While like that the older dog should be far less concerned with what the puppy will do next and much more focused on you and what you want from it next. While the two dogs sort out who is Alpha (and this may change as the puppy grows) they need to remember it is YOU who is the Alpha pack member. Fights for Alpha spot can be fought harder than fights for position under that (more they are vying for Beta). If the Alpha spot is filled and not to be challenged the two dogs should find it easier to cope with each other not to mention doing that every day conditions them to not care about being near the other one.

16

Yes, yes it is. We see this a lot a lot at work, where the owner is upset and stressed and it makes the dog fearful and semi-aggressive. Once we pry the animal away from the owner and put into a quiet environment where everyone’s calm, the majority of them settle right down. You’re going to have to force yourself to relax, because the tenser you are the tenser the dog is, and the tenser the dog is, the tenser you get. It’s a nasty feedback loop that has to be broken, and the dog isn’t capable of breaking it, so it’s up to you.

Another thing that may help is when they have problems, don’t lock the adult dog up. Put the puppy away in another room instead. Dogs aren’t really capable of rationalizing that kind of stuff, any more than really young children are. They don’t understand that you put her away so you could make sure the pup was okay and because she was the one being aggressive. All she knows is the puppy made a move for her food, and she got spanked and locked away from you, while the puppy got all the attention. Or as my brother used to put it, “She was bad, and I got in trouble.”

Try not to make too big a fuss about Polaris when they have these scuffles, either. The bigger deal you act like it is, the bigger deal she’s going to think it is and the more likely she is to be afraid. You know how when a toddler falls on his butt and people run up cooing “Oh, poor sweetie, it’s okay,” the kid screams his head off? But if you laugh and clap your hands and tell them baby fall down go boom they laugh and get right up and go on. Dogs are a lot like that.

17

dogs are constantly monitoring their owners, some more obviously than others, and they are quick to pick up on our moods, or if we are sick or distressed.

18

Today I tried bribing the adult dog, and had some moderate success. Every time she sniffed the puppy, or approached her without growling, I praised her and gave her a treat. Seemed to work, in that the adult dog approached the puppy more, knowing she was going to get something yummy out of it. Manipulator. :smiley:

I’m making a concerted effort to appear relaxed. I either begin to read my book again, or watch the television to distract myself away while the dog is sniffing the puppy or watching her intently.

On a side note, Rejoice and Be Exceedingly Glad! Polaris is eating dry kibble! I never thought I would be able to get her to do it, but she ate it heartily this evening, and then drank some water! (I’ve been having a hell of a time getting her to drink at all.)

19

Any pictures we can see Lissa?

20

Yeah, if I get a chance tonight, I’ll set up a page with some pictures.

Prepared to be awed by the incredible cuteness! There is an “awww!” factor of about 9.8.