OK, I’m going to come in again despite not being gay.
I don’t understand. Where I’m from, nudity isn’t the big deal it is in the US (apparently). So pools often have shared changing rooms, people go skinny dipping, people sun bathe nude, don’t hide if they need to change.
It’s not like everyone is constantly “switching off attraction”.
If I go skinny dipping with friends: firstly, there is really very little difference between skinny dipping and swimming in a little bikini. So does everyone switch off attraction when they see people of the sex they are attracted to swimming? Are “switching off attraction” the whole time you are at the beach?
Secondly, we’re probably busy swimming. It’s not that you don’t notice beautiful, attractive people. But we manage to not hump each others legs somehow, yes.
Speaking as a heterosexual man, my reaction to this was: Whaaaat?
The reason I like girls is not because the have things I don’t. Put breasts or a vagina on Mel Gibson or George Clooney, and I’m not going to be the least bit attracted. I like looking at pictures of naked women, at least if they’re attractive, but close-ups of anonymous female genitalia do nothing for me. I love playing with the girl parts of an attractive woman, but if you put those girl parts on me, or on another guy, or on a mannequin, or on a sheep—no thanks. But I am attracted to a pretty woman’s legs, or face, or things like that that I myself have. And, thinking back to my childhood, my interest in girls predates both my interest in having sex with them and their possession of womanly bodies.
I think Shagnasty has an interesting question, but I’m not sure the premise is sound, because it posits a gay/straight duality - what about those of us who are bisexual?
I don’t think that attraction is based on the available genitalia at all.
I think, as pat as it sounds, we are attracted to who we’re attracted to because of some sort of chemical or subconscious physical attributes, and then we rationalize or explain the attraction to ourselves later as part of making the world make coherent sense.
We do it all the time with other aspects of being human, so I don’t see that this particular aspect gets a pass just because there are sex organs involved.
On the topic of the hijack, I really think that Americans are fantastically prudish about bodies, and I really wish we weren’t. It seems really unfortunate to me to have a cultural shame over nudity and bodies to the extent that we do.
Again with the hyperbole/strawman.
Let’s pretend there’s no middle ground between no observable effect and uncontrollable lust in a constant sea of horniness that makes you masturbate furiously.
Fighting strawmen? I made a relevant joke. Well, I think it’s funny anyway.
The rest of what I said pertains more directly to your question, which, frankly, I find absurd.
My point, again: you are just as often exposed to attractive people in various states of undress. I’m sure someone in a bikini is as attractive as someone who is naked. I think we can assume that your own reaction is similar to the reaction of someone who is gay. That is to say: they can probably appreciate attractive people without humping their legs or “switching off their attraction” just as well as you can.
Well, there’s a lot about it, and about the scene you’re thinking of, that’s pretty terrible.
I’m also a little nervous about just using trans people as foils for us cis people to talk about our own psyches. The trans people who are in my life have their own lives and priorities, and I like to think they’re in my life because they like to be there, and not as foils for me to prove or disprove or examine some point about myself. So that’s not my intention.
Well, it’s easier to talk about things that turn me off, because they’re pretty precise, while what turns me on is a lot more varied and contingent.
I don’t make any special effort to turn off attraction in that circumstance. Sometimes, I see an attractive naked man in the shower, or, say, an attractive man bare-chested while rollerblading, or whatever. I go, “Oh, he’s very attractive.” I might even have an idle fantasy. But this is also true when I see an attractive man fully dressed in the street, and in any event, I’m certainly not going to do anything about it, I’m just going to go about my business.
(What do you think my attraction might make me do that it would be incumbent on me to “switch it off”?)
Can you really not fathom anything inbetween no observable effect and what you said? Can you not fathom that a gay man could, say, glance longer than usual at other men’s bodies or get the start of an erection in a shower? Which would be easier for others to notice than at the beach and might carry the risk of a negative reaction from some other men.
Not all hetero-oriented people are attracted to the other sex because “they have stuff that we don’t”. I’m attracted to females because of what they do have, not because I don’t have those same parts myself. I just like that particular morphology a lot.
I’d imagine it’s that way for gay folk. It’s probably not about difference or sameness, it’s about “mmm, those shapes yummy”
As a lesbian, I would say I look far *less *at other women in the changing room than my straight counterparts, in large part because of the homophobic reactions you mention. You feel paranoid that other women might take your look the wrong way, even if you’re only doing the ‘gosh her bush is big’ thing in your head that anyone does. I imagine this is true for many gay people – despite what some straight people might think, gay people aren’t any hornier than your average Joe.
Thanks for the informative answer, free of defensiveness or ungenerous interpretation. It’s refreshing.
When I was in bootcamp, I did wonder how young gay recruits handle group showers. I’m pretty sure most straight 19 year old males who took a shower surrounded by fit young female recruits would have difficulty hiding their heterosexuality. In the gay recruit’s case, that could be significant cause for worry.
The only thing I don’t understand about homosexual attraction is how they balance their attraction with their own body image insecurities. Like does it feel emasculating for a man to date a man with a penis much bigger than his own?
On the internet, it seems, every man can get a throbbing hard-on just from a wink, a gentle breeze, or even a sexy idea. Perhaps, now in my mid-thirties, I am older or less virile than these gentlemen, but even when I get stirrings of a boner–and I have in locker rooms, one can discreetly look, and some men, gay and straight, do subtly showoff–it won’t become especially noticeable absent further direct stimulation.
Although the internet swears differently, I’ve not encountered men who can sustain, or even obtain, full turgidity merely by having a good imagination.
I guess it would be emasculating for someone who’s fairly obsessed with penis size, yet is himself small. Typically, those guys are rejected so much over time, that they become “catchers,” so their own genitals are fairly irrelevant. Yes, it’s sad.
But in healthier relationships, in which so many qualities and characteristics are more important, differences in penis size are no more relevant than difference in, say, income or musical ability.
And back to the question about getting excited in locker rooms: When I was in high school we had mandatory showers after gym class, and for 6 weeks every semester, we had daily nude swimming class. In all that time I saw exactly 1 erection, in the locker room, and I think the kid was deliberately showing off. I think the fear of having an erection was enough to keep it from happening.
Ah, I get it. You were talking about involuntary erections.
No, never happened to me. There’s no effort involved, the context is just not very sexual/romantic, even if the other guys are hot.
I guess it’s a bit like if you go to a (female) doctor and she examines/manipulates your genitals clinically (clinically, not critically!). I would imagine that you won’t have much of a reaction.
ETA: I don’t get involuntary erections. However, I can look, I can blush and I can say stupid things.
And there’s another phenomenon that hasn’t been discussed: You’re watching a movie, and the leading man is making out (or more) with the leading lady. Which one do I identify with? Through whose eyes am I perceiving their interaction? Do I identify with the man, because I’m a man, or do I identify with the woman, because I want to be in her place? I have never been able to resolve this, so I kind of switch back-and-forth.