And I suppose you think Biggirl would disagree? I doubt it. She never said that “all rap music is the same,” and she stated (repeatedly) that lyrics can often be powerful in rap.
What Biggirl seems to be saying (correct me of I’m wrong, BG) is that there are indeed differences, but that one is not inherently better than the other, and that while some people’s tastes do make them focus on lyrics, there is evidence to suggest that rap/hip-hop is a musical genre largely based on rhythm and beat. I would agree with her assessments overall, and she cited some other references to back hers up. Did you?
She also already acknowledged some exceptions to that general principle. Did you?
You seem to have a problem accepting the fact that other’s opinions can be just as valid as yours, when it comes to musical taste.
Finally, a true statement. I’m still not sure whether Run DMC was a guy or a group.
However, your claim that music has “moved beyond” is merely an assertion that the stuff you like is somehow better than (rather than different than) other stuff that you do not like. So you are still pushing popularity over substance. (Which kinda means that your sniper shots at MTV and TRL mean that you lose–based on popularity. )
Had you made the different case that the genre was moving in more than one direction, you might have gotten everyone’s attention without the rudeness. As it is, however, you seem to be stuck in the mode of cheering on “your team.” Try sitting down and thinking through the actual case you think you want to make. Is there a subgenre that is moving away from the emphasis on rhythm toward meaningful lyrics? Can you show the historical development of that movement through different groups/performers? Can you demonstrate that the lyrics of which you are enamored are actually profound (as opposed to bombastic)? Give it some thought. Put together a coherent presentation. Then go back to the other thread and make your point.
I suspect that you still don’t see the difference between what you actually said and what you might have said, so I will leave you to the tender mercies of Biggirl if she chooses to return.
She’s coming around. At the behest of tomndebb. There is yet hope in the world. If only I were optimistic enough to think that an apology that is so richly deserved might be forthcoming.
You know MOL, if you would just read the actual words that I wrote and stop assuming things and jumping to conclusions (and playing a stupid game of oneupmanship with everyone who disagrees with you) we could have had a nice conversation. Instead you had to show your ass and your ignorance and piss me off by being a rude, mouthy bitch.
Let me spell it out for you s-l-o-w-l-y in little words so that you may understand (that means know) the words that I am posting.
Tom is such a reasonable, calm guy. I wish I were more like him. It almost makes me feel bad calling MOL a stupid bitch in the same thread. Almost.
She told me to shut up! Who in the hell does she think she is?
[sub]Can anyone tell how much that shit pissed me off?[/sub]
Nah, it’s just the touch of surreality that makes this board extraordinary, rather than just merely great.
Biggirl weighs in on rap thread – perfectly normal.
MeanOldLady disputes her credibility – again normal.
Biggirl comes back with cites and quotes – where else are you gonna find that?
MOL digs in – ok, all too common.
Lux_Fiat wings in “wanky, music-snob ouroboros who has ever not been invited to a party in middle school” – an elegant sarcastic hijack which goes winging over MOL’s head.
MOL, after disputing Biggirl’s hip-hop credibility, attacks her because she doesn’t realize Biggirl is “colored” – oh, this is rich.
Biggirl, after remaining calm in the thread, starts a Pit thread – always entertaining.
The accolades start pouring in – I expect that with a Biggirl pit thread.
Tom~ weighs in – wow, Tom~ in a Pit thread on Hip Hop.
MOL disputes Tom~'s logic – watch out.
Tom~ stick’s to the Pit thread fighting MOL’s ignorance with calm logic – we’ve reached the sublime.
I think perhaps that’s part of the problem. May I make a few comments?
This is a place where people can share opinions, and learn from one another. If I remember correctly, the original thread (thread, not board) was in Cafe Society, not Great Debates. Although I wasn’t the OP, I’m assuming the purpose was to hear some differing opinions on the matter, not to sponsor a smackdown where there would be a single victor, with bloodied bodies of the victims strewn around the room. Differing viewpoints are a good thing, and make for a more informative, interesting thread.
It’s fine if you want to say that you say that so-and-so is the greatest thing ever (although I think repeated references to an entertainer as a GOD tends to mark you as someone who is not fully grounded in reality.) You can even disagree with someone who has mentioned someone you didn’t like. It’s a heck of a lot more tactful, and much more likely to leave you in good standing with other folks in the community, however, if you say something like “Nelly? I think he’s over-rated. I would rather hear from someone who has more to talk about than booty-shaking” than to opine, over and over, that anyone who liked him and his music was an utter moron with his/her head up their arse. (I know that wasn’t the particular insult you used; I’m just not interested in going and looking them all up.) Even if you may think so, remember that you don’t necessarily have to post everything you think. Self-editing is your friend.
This is a community of people who like to communicate and discuss things. It takes all kinds to make the community. The ones who spend a disproportionate amount of their posts on “No, I’m right! I"M RIGHT! YOU ARE ALL WRONG AND I AM OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!” are the a part of the community — but they’re the ones that tend to get tiresome after a while.
May I try and simplfy the point several people are trying to make to you, MOL, unless I am misinterpreting.
No one really cares about the validity of your opnions on on hip hop vis a vis Biggirl. What we care about is that you are treating your own opinions as “factually correct”, and everyone else’s as either right or wrong in relation to your opinion. We all may do that from time to time, but to heap abuse on someone else’s opinion is a no no. And you’ve continued to defend your musical opinions rather than adress the more fundamental underlying issue of the posters in this thread. You just don’t seem to get that this boils down much more to rudeness and thoughtlessness than to musical expertise.
Hmm, telling Biggirl to shut up pisses her off, eh? Hey Big… SHADDAP!!! You’re not God. People have the right to tell you to shut your trap. Shut the fuck up!!!
Anyway, allow me to address a few things. That’s some great selective quoting of Kweli I saw there. Really, I liked that. Sure Kweli likes a good rhythm. Who doesn’t? That doesn’t mean his lyrics aren’t what he focuses on. Ahem, Kweli says:
Interesting. Anyway, I’m not trying to say listen to my music or die. My main beef with Big was when she said hip hop music isn’t a good place to look for insightful lyrics. The genre is about beat and not rhythms. Yes, she said that. Read her posts. Run your lips. In that order. I’m saying listen to whoever the hell you want to listen to. But after I attacked Nelly for thinking his lyrics suck, she told me I’m listening to the wrong kind of music if good lyrics are what I’m looking for. There is some damn good, socially conscious hip hop music out there. To say hip hop is the wrong genre to listen to if you’re big on lyrical content is plain false. God knows how many times I’m going to have to say the same thing. Jebus…
This is the forum for trash talking, idiot, so no skin off my nose.
In rap, the beat is how the artist show love. Take away the flow and you have somebody talking. That’s not rap, that’s talking.
Idiot.
And if you had stuck with this argument and fleshed it out, we could have gotten somewhere. And talk about having to repeat yourself over and over. I never fucking said you couldn’t find good lyrics in rap. But your so busy trying to score points you convienently overlook the second part of my statement. I mean, you must have read it since I quoted it and then you quoted it. I think you are trying to look like an idiot. And I must say there is something you can do really, really well.
I don’t know why I keep trying to talk to you, since it is obvious your head is harder than a newly released convict at a whorehouse but I didn’t “attack” you because you don’t like Nelly. I didn’t attack you at all. I took issue with you superior attitude and how you characterized those who do like Em, JayZ and Nelly. But since you are-- and I cannot stress this enough-- an idiot, you chose to pick a fight that nobody’s fighting except you.
The music just gives the emcees something to flow over. And no one said you said it’s downright IMPOSSIBLE to find good lyrics in hip hop. But you DID say hip hop is NOT the right genre to listen to if lyrics are your thing as the whole rap shebang is all beats. I’ll quote you.
Looks like you’re saying rap can say some good stuff, but that’s not really what it’s all about. Lyrics don’t really matter, you might run into something worthwhile every now and again, but it’s all about the beats. Umm, not true. There are tons of hip hop artists who make a serious conscious efforts to come up with relevant lyrics (hint: read Kweli’s quote above). Sheesh.
Jeez, for a rapper, this Common guy seems to have this whole deal about the messages of his songs. Pssh, what’s his problem? Lyrics and stuff are supposed to take a back seat to beats, bass and bla bla bla. Somebody oughtta tell him.
One more thing, Big, you can’t read. Where did I say you attacked me for not liking Nelly? I said I attacked Nelly b/c I think he has crappy lyrics and then you said if I don’t like crappy lyrics, I’d better stop listening to rap.
You do remember this, don’t you? And before you respond to my posts and start flapping, read carefully first. Thanks much.
)