Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln…
[Moderating]
Telling other posters to duck your dick is a violation of the board’s language rules. Please avoid doing this in the future.
No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
That’s where we are today.
It’s been over a century and half. How much longer do you think we’d have to wait?
Your choice to associate, proudly and loyally, with “true racist deplorables” and their party and their president is your own. Perhaps you should confront that decision for yourself first.
The Old South existed until the early 1970s. I would expect most white southern people born in the 1950s or later to harbor pro-Confederate views, at least to the extent of admiring the Confederate war leaders, because that’s what they were raised to believe and that’s what they were taught in schools. We probably could have done this a lot more peacefully in another 30 years.
Oh sorry, my bad. I missed the part of the OP that tied it to a current news story.
And please point out exactly where I was defending confederate flag apologists. I’ve made my views on this matter clear. Since you seem to have a problem with reading for comprehension I’ll spell it out for you: I think waving a rebel and calling it heritage is racist bullshit.
Me pointing out that this is a tired subject for pit outrage does not equal me being racist.
In light of recent events, it’s really not.
I think that this is a tired subject, and chose to participate in the thread to say so, har-har.
:rolleyes:
Things have gotten worse since the OP was posted so the case could be made. Still, I have no way of knowing that was the OP’s intent. It was just a “bad things are bad” post. I’m certainly not the first on these boards to point out a weak pitting effort - regardless the subject.
.
Huh?
There’s plenty of evidence that it persists today, wouldn’t you say?
There are thousands of younger people doing that today in Charlottesville alone.
When you wouldn’t be around and forced to confront it in yourself, you mean?
No fuckin’ excuses, man. That isn’t what patriotism means.
I’ve got a tropism toward history, so it’s hard for me to be against statues and flags, as themselves. The use they’re put to can be indefensible, and the recent uses are.
Maybe it’s time for another round offlag education. The southern battle flags start at around 1.50. I doubt it would get any traction, but at this point I’d like to see the three actual national (Confederate) battle
flags used to represent pride in history with less racist baggage. Yes, I know they had the same historical baggage, but they haven’t collected the same amount of baggage since the war.
I agree that rebellion/revolution was baked into the founding concept of the US. From the Whiskey Rebellion to today, it’s there. Whether secession was a right or not was an open question until the Civil War.
Sorry. I can’t imagine any American flag paint job looking as cool as the General Lee. Exception to the Dukes granted.
What’s if it’s flying around and might hit them? Could I then tell a poster, “Duck! My dick!”
And the belief that they must be stamped out at all costs would be… clearly not absolutism?
Cite where I say that?
As even on this thread I point out, I also think that the authorities should take hate groups like the one involved in the killing today to be investigated and the ones conspiring to use violence to be arrested.
Again, freedom of speech has its limits like when shouting fire in a crowded theater, and so it goes for the ones that scream (clearly falsely) that there is white genocide going or other things designed to incite violence on others. Or like in the matter at hand, when the extremists do resort to violence to quiet down the ones telling to the Nazis and confederate followers that they do indeed support racism, slavery and genocide by design.
I said I might give him a pass for racism and slavery. I didn’t say I’d give him a pass on treason.
It’s not like people are dressing up like the Army of the Potomac and having parades where they accuse southerners of being disloyal. If the memories are being kept alive, it’s the Confederate wannabees who are doing it.
And that’s the relevant term: wannabee. The Confederates were notable for exactly two things: defending slavery and declaring war on the United States. If you go around wanting to be like a Confederate, you’re supporting one or both of those causes. And I vehemently disagree with both of them.
Cite where I said that you said that.
Not all - or even most - racists are genocidal. Most simply want people that belong to a certain skin colour to return to the area that others of their skin colour came from.
I’m not, NOT, defending racism. I am saying that these people believe they have good cause to want this because they believe it will lead to their own betterment.
If you take the average, run-of-the-mill racist and say to them, “Do you support the systematic extermination of anyone who is not of Northern European decent?” they will say, “No, just get them away from here.”
I don’t believe that that is a sensible or reasonable opinion to hold. But it is certainly not equitable to genocide.
Genocide is tossed out now as the end goal of everyone that does not support 100% acceptance of everyone (within certain arbitrary limits) in order to shut down discussion.
Personally, I think that immigration improves things. I think having a variety of cultures enriches the entirety of society. I’m the diametrical opposite of a Nazi.
Partly because one of the things that Nazis believed was that anything that challenged their orthodoxy must be eradicated. I don’t believe that.
Canada, my country, is somewhat unique in that we revere traitors (Louis Riel) who lead armed rebellions against the country and want to remove from history those who did bad as well as laying down the foundations of our nation.
Holding the above stated opinion renders me anathema in most conversations because of the naziesque refusal of the new left to accept that other points of view may have a basis in fact.
This thing that says, “as soon as anything can be remotely connected to ‘intollerance’ must be condemned vociferously and suppressed” is antithetical to right-thinking discourse.
As far as violence goes it is done by both sides. What ideology did the SLA have? The Weather Underground? Lee Harvey Oswald? The Unabomber? The Black Panthers? Was Tim McVie motivated by racism and xenophobia or was he just anti-government 9I truly don’t know the answer to this.)
People that go tribal go tribal and that is the source of the current problem. My tribe thinks your tribe wants to hurt me so I will hurt you.
And we on the left tend to forget that words are violent. It is Orwellian double-think.
This current intolerance for “alt-right” ideas
Many Confederate soldiers didn’t have the means to move outside and felt they needed to defend their state from a northern invader. Keep in mind, 85% of Confederate soldiers didn’t own slaves. What they were fighting for - if you asked them at the time - was to repel the outsiders from their home.
I understand that fighting for a morally-just cause sits easier in the consciences of all men, but if your family and livelihood are at stake, running away to a far-off land may not seem a tenable (or even respectable) option. Many young men who didn’t have a dog in the fight for slavery gave their lives defending it. It’s part of the tragedy of the Civil War.
You know this nazi bullshit has nothing to do with confederate soldiers, right? Those confederate monuments were not constructed in the years following the Civil War. They went up in the 20th century as a reminder to Black Americans- who were incrementally, in tiny amounts, experiencing freedom. The reminder was about who the boss was. That’s what these nazi assholes are defending, the time when America was “great” and Blacks knew who the boss was. The confederacy is a convenient, nostalgic, cover.
King responded to that type of argument 50 years ago:
[QUOTE=Martin Luther King Jr - "Letter from the Birmingham Jail]
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
[/QUOTE]
I second that. It’s telling that Reconstruction aside (so it was harsh) the one side that still bears the grudge is the South (some of them anyway). Lincoln could have ordered every last one of them to be hanged. He didn’t. Considering the still existing animosity he may as well have, for all the good it did.
Defend traitors who by law should have been executed? Nope. We see this weekend which side still can’t let bygones be bygones, even though the losing combatants (traitors) died of natural causes (thanks to Lincoln) LONG ago. We also see this weekend which side chooses to fly the Nazi flag.
So yeah, suck mine too. Choke on it.