I was born in the South. Not quite deep-deep south, but not far away. My great-great grandfather fought for the south. I certainly do not have a problem with an organization such as the “Sons of the Confederacy” honoring the dead that died in the U.S.A.'s bloodiest, cruellest, most divisive war.
Sometimes I wondor if the Sons of Confederate Veterans are more than just a society of preservation, but one who believes the war is still being waged. That the north is still the enemy. The outcome of the war was a bad thing. I do know they see Abraham Lincoln in about the same light as most Americans see Saddam Hussein, or Adolf Hitler.
I just read an article in the Houston Chronicle, by Michael Buettner, of the Associated Press. I did not find that one online, but this, and this, will give you the story.
They are protesting a statue of Lincoln in Richmond Virginia. WTF is their problem. It was a horrible war, but most people in the south do not see Lincoln as an evil aggressor. In fact, towards the end of the war he was a voice of moderation and forgiveness. Does the SCV even acnowledge this? Or are their panties still all wadded up about their great-great grandaddies war? That last question was obviously rhetorical, most SCV’s do not wear female undergarments.
I like posting this stuff in the Pit. Great Debates gets too wordy. Cussing and flaming are discouraged in IMHO. However, feel free to cuss, flame, debate, and honestly state your opinion. I won’t beat you up for speaking for the minority. I will let others do it and laugh.
I remember someone (she posted here during the brief JanL crap), who still called it the War of Northern Aggression, and stated that Lincoln was evil, and so was MLK.
But she’s not a racist. :rolleyes:
Good god, people, you lost the war, get the fuck over it.
I was once watching a PBS documentary on the confederate flag. They talked to this joker who just about cried as he went on and on about how his heritage was being taken away from him. You know, because having the confederate flag waving across the street from the SC capital rather than on the premises itself is akin to desecrating Dixie and all she stands for. :rolleyes:
If you’re not From The South, you can’t really imagine the Pride of Dixie in some people’s hearts. So, saying things like “you’re a racist,” “you guys lost,” “it wasn’t Northern aggression, it was all about the slaves,” are going to get hostile reactions.
I am from Texas. I am a Southern Gentleman. So, I won’t try to refight the unCivil War. (I’ve also called it The War of Northern Aggression, but don’t you dare call me a racist , you regionalist!) Live in the South for a while. Or better yet, arrange to be born there. And then you’ll understand, too.
BTW, FTR, FWIW, the South didn’t lose the war… America lost the war. She is still paying for it.
My Great-great-Aunt used to refer to it as That Recent Unpleasantness. But then she was a lady in every sense of the word.
Following in the words of NoClueBoy, please don’t forget Sherman’s march to the sea where he razed a path of destruction across Georgia nor that the Southern states were occupied military districts for a while. Just as Yankees may be proud of their heritage and roots, allow us to remember our heritage.
And yes, the Sons of the Confederacy need to rethink their position on the statue of Lincoln.
NoClueBoy, I could not agree, or state better, the sentiment at the end of your post. Thank you, sir, for sharing that with us.
Those rabidly vocal Southerners don’t speak for all of us. I hate them 'cause they make the South appear to be full of backwards, racist fools. I would like to send them back in time to Vicksburg and see how they react to the reality of wholesale slaughter of their brothers and friends and ask them, “You want this?”
The Confederacy lost, the Union won, it was a good thing the Union won, the South needs to move on. Case closed.
Of course, you have to remember that I was born in Wyoming (we weren’t even a state during the War) so we pretty much just lump people into ‘Easterners’, ‘Califorians’ and us right thinking folks in the West. We don’t get this whole ‘heritage’ thing…
Guinastasia I’m a little surprised. That comment was more offensive and shallow than I would have expected of you. How would you feel about a North Vietnamese man expressing this tender sentiment to a group of Vietnam Veterans or an Islamic politican telling a group of New Yorkers that 9-11 was entirely predictable response to American policies and to “Get over it” and move on.
With all due respect Guin, the Civil War had a lot of stuff going on and people and families involved for reasons that resonated far beyond the immediate issue of slavery. A lot of good and noble people died in that awful conflict on both sides that are remembered to this day.
While wallowing in revisionism is pretty dysfunctional way to view history, a little sensitivity goes a long way toward healing simmering resentments and
With all due respect Guin, the Civil War had a lot of stuff going on and people and families involved for reasons that resonated far beyond the immediate issue of slavery. A lot of good and noble people died in that awful conflict on both sides that are remembered to this day.
While wallowing in revisionism is pretty dysfunctional way to view history, a little sensitivity goes a long way toward healing simmering resentments
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No.
Absolutely no.
I am a Southerner, born in the South, raised in the South, the descendant of slaveholders, and I’m glad that the Confederacy lost. A victorious Confederacy would have led to two nations being tools for European mischief in both world wars, and immeasurable amounts of money and lives would have been lost in defending the border between the Union and the Confederacy afterwards. Our nation would not have the power and prosperity that we enjoy today.
And the centrral issue of the war was black slavery, and to deny that is to lie in the face of history. The Confederate states broke away from the Union in order to protect the institution of slavery and to further its expansion to the West.
There is no difference IMO between waving the Stars and Bars and waving the Swastika; both flags are the badges of the principles of tyranny, racial prejudice, and enslavement.
Well, I’m from the South too. And perhaps I’m out of the loop, but when it comes to the South, one person’s “heritage” is another person’s tragedy.
If you want to hoop and holler about Southern heritage, fine. But don’t try to make this behavior a prerequisite for being a true Southerner.
Perhaps that’s why the Yankees look down on the South. There are WAY too many people who think there’s something sacred about where they were born I can’t even talk about certain subjects without people claiming (wrongly) that I’m a Yankee. As if there’s a “Southern” way of thinking. Look, you’re from the South. You bleed sweet tea and you have rebel-flag underwear. Wonderful. Just leave the rest of us normal Southerners alone, please.
Let’s phrase it this way to keep the context correct: How would you feel about the great great great grandson of a North Vietnamese soldier telling the great great great grandchildren of Vietnamese Veterans to “Get over it, move on”?
Hell, by that time, we’ll all be driving flying cars, all our meals will be pills, and we’ll be governed by those DAMNED DIRTY APES!!
The only reason I said pride in history, is talk about the good people, and what happened. I’m a historian, so I try not to get too biased.
(Also, I’m one of the first to bring up the Easter Rebellion in Ireland, 1916).
BUT, the Confederate flag isn’t really such a proud symbol. It symbolizes arrogance, stubborness, slavery, racism, losing, treason, etc.
These people sound upset that the South lost. Margaret Mitchell was ten years old before she learned that the North won. She really believed the South had won.
If the Confederacy had won, we’d be another Yugoslavia.
Much to my shame, my family owned thousands of slaves in the Carribean, South America, and the USA.
England put an end to slavery at home, and then in the colonies, while the USA continued to practice slavery.
The southern states had a long opportunity to mend their evil ways, but chose not to.
The northern states did what had to be done. The south had and has only itself to look to for the horror of the war it bought on itself.
