In which I pit Gordon Young of the Ku Klux Klan

The BBQ Pit
1

The Bedsheeted Bigot Brigade apparently had a rally of some sort at Antietam.

[http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/10/klan.antietam.ap/index.html](CNN article)

Mr. Young contributed the following quote:

*Antietam carries powerful symbolism, said Gordon Young of the Ku Klux Klan.

“As the Klan, we are the ghosts of our Confederate brothers and sisters who died here,” Young said.*
I beg to differ, Mr. Young. As the Klan, you are an embarassment to the soldiers buried there, some of whom are my ancestors. As the Klan, you have stolen symbols of valor and perverted them into something unholy. As the Klan, you are more loathsome and disgusting than the maggots eating the rotting vagina of your long dead grandmother.

Racism is wrong, Mr. Young. The Klan is a terrorist organization. It gives me great personal pleasure to know that the Southern Poverty Law Center, among others, used the RICO statutes to first obtain a lawful judgment, and then executed same upon your real property assets in Alabama.

Because of you, and others of your ilk, Southerners are often unfairly stereotyped as illiterate, inbred racists. Because of you and others of your ilk, it is difficult for Southerners to express pride in their heritage without being branded with your filth. Because of you and others of your ilk, the flag under which my ancestors fought valiantly against overwhelming odds has been perverted in the eyes of many into some sort of racist symbol it was never intended to be.

Fuck you, Mr. Young. Fuck you, your organization, and all that you believe. May you die a slow painful death, preferably somewhere I can watch. Fuck you, you God damned mother fucking son of a cock sucking bitch. The Ninth Circle of Hell is far too good for you. I’d wish for rats to dine on your entrails while you’re still alive to watch, but I wouldn’t want innocent rats to gag on your putrid guts. May you suffer for all eternity, enduring all the pain and misery inflicted on innocents by your entire organization, times ten. May your testicles be shredded with a cheesegrater, the wound doused in alcohol, and then set aflame, in an eternal torment available on interdimensional PPV. Fuck you, Mr. Young.

2

The Confederacy and it’s flag always stood for slavery. Evil as the Klan is, the Old South was far, far worse.

3

Not that the guy doesn’t deserve an individual Pitting, but when I saw the thread title, I thought, “Well, given that the schmuck’s in the Klan . . . isn’t the Pitting pretty much assumed?”

Arguing about the Confederacy is a whole other thing. Cost me one romantic relationship, and in general I’ve found it a fruitless argument because Confederate apologists tend to hold their beliefs as articles of faith. Suffice to say that people who are not themselves racists can differ on the issue.

4

Well, yeah. But I did it with style.

5

I’m not sure how much I can manage to believe about the valor of the Confederacy, but I know I heartily agree that the Klan are scumfuckers.

6

Cite?

Here’s a link to what wikipedia has to say:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Flag](Wiki Link)

What is usually called “The Confederate Flag” or “The Confederate Battle Flag” (actually the Navy Jack as explained above) is still a widely-recognized symbol. The display of the flag is a controversial and very emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over exactly what it symbolizes. To many in the US South it is simply a symbol of their heritage and pride in their ancestors who held out during years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice. Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery, or of the Jim Crow laws established by the many Southern states enforcing racial segregation within their borders for almost a century later. According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south’s resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

7

WOW! Damn I sort of wish I had said that! I know I am going to be slammed over this, but the civil war was never about slavery (which was wrong wrong wrong), it was about economics. The stars and bars are no more about slavery than the pickaxe, plow and shovel on the state flag of my Wisconsin. My great-great grandfather testified against Col. Wirz over the Andersonville issue. I have read that similar mistreatment occurred in the north. But it is the victors that write history. Let the south display the flag of thier choice. No harm done. On Mayo de cinco he got cars driving around with Mexican flags. (it sort of grates on me but what the heck.)
To the KKK, come round here any time, we call them sheets shrouds. Idiot in a basket, self packaged.

8

The problem is that modern usage of that flag is so often tied to racism. I think it was first ‘re-used’ in that context.

It’s Cinco de Mayo, and that’s a tiny bit different from a Confederate flag.

9

Well, he’s right, isn’t he?

The KKK is the ghost of the Confederacy. Founded by a Confederate Officers to resist the northern agression and to preserve the old racial order even after emancipation.

Now, you may argue that the Confederacy wasn’t *all *about slavery, but preserving the right to keep other human beings as chattel was one of the foundation concepts of that stillborn nation. Other, more worthy facets of southern culture may be preserved elsewhere, but the undeniably racist aspects of the Confederacy are echoed by the Klan.

10

I see my mistake and thqnk yo for correcting it, my point was the flag is a what you make of it, if you choose to make the fifty stars a sign of torture (Gitmo) you could. I just think is better to hang loose and deal with the underlying issues.

11

I understand your point, seenidog, I’m just saying most other flags aren’t as ‘automatically’ tied into racism.

12

ok Marley23, it just sunk in. Let me see if I got it right this time. While the display of the stars and bars in of it self has no meaning, the fact that many attribute a meaning to it gives it that meaning.

13

Is the KKK still extant?

14

ok Marley23, it just sunk in. Let me see if I got it right this time. While the display of the stars and bars in of it self has no meaning, the fact that many attribute a meaning to it gives it that meaning.

15

It’s not that it has NO meaning, but that’s something like what I meant. I understand that that flag doesn’t always have a racist meaning behind it (for all I know, it’s used that way only 1% of the time), but that usage is part of its history. For that reason, I think it’s different from a lot of other symbols and it makes it that much harder for people to view it neutrally.

16

Funny, I always thought it meant “union”.

17

not sure how I double posted. Sorry about that. And to Marley, thanks for your input, I think I answered my own question with your assistance. Can a meaningless icon take on a meaning of it’s own? Yes. Why? Because as a whole us humans are not all that smart, and I add me to the top of that list, I double posted.

18

Oh screw you, my family has lived in the Old South for nigh unto 300 years and we aren’t and as far as I know ever weren’t evil or worse than the Klan. According to all the census records I’ve tracked down, my family like most of the population never owned slaves, you douchebag. Screw you.

19

No, he is not right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

*Ku Klux Klan is the name of a number of past and present fraternal organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy and anti-Semitism; and in the past century, anti-Catholicism, and nativism. These organizations have often promoted the use of terror and violence against African Americans and others.

The Klan’s first incarnation was in 1866. Founded by veterans of the Confederate Army, its main purpose was to resist Reconstruction, and it focused as much on intimidating “carpetbaggers” and “scalawags” as on putting down the freed slaves. It quickly adopted violent methods, and was involved in a wave of 1,300 murders of Republican voters in 1868. A rapid reaction set in, with the Klan’s leadership disowning it, and Southern elites seeing the Klan as an excuse for federal troops to continue their activities in the South. The organization was in decline from 1868 to 1870, and was destroyed in the early 1870s by President Ulysses S. Grant’s vigorous action under the Civil Rights Act of 1871 (also known as the Ku Klux Klan Act).

The founding in 1915 of a second distinct group using the same name was inspired by the newfound power of the modern mass media, via the film The Birth of a Nation and inflammatory and anti-Semitic newspaper accounts surrounding the trial and lynching of accused murderer Leo Frank. The second KKK was a formal membership organization, with a national and state structure, that paid thousands of men to organize local chapters all over the country. Millions joined and at its peak in the 1920s the organization included about 15% of the nation’s eligible population.[1] The second KKK typically preached Racism, anti-Catholicism, nativism, and anti-Semitism and some local groups took part in lynchings and other violent activities. Its popularity fell during the Great Depression, and membership fell further during World War II, due to scandals resulting from prominent members’ crimes and support of the Nazis.

The name “Ku Klux Klan” has since been used by many different unrelated groups, including many who opposed the Civil Rights Act and desegregation in the 1960s. Today, dozens of organizations with chapters across the United States and other countries use all or part of the name in their titles, but their total membership is estimated to be only a few thousand. These groups, with operations in separated small local units, are considered extreme hate groups. The modern KKK has been disowned by all mainstream media and political and religious leaders.*

No version of the Klan is defensible, but Young’s organization is not the “Ghosts of the Confederacy”. The original Klan had been defunct for over 40 years before the founding of the second, unrelated group. Since then, plenty of dimwits have wrapped themselves in bedsheets.

It was Young’s claim that motivated my pitting. Because of people like him, people like me are put in a difficult position. I am not a racist. I honor the sacrifices of my ancestors on the field of battle. It is likely that some of them fought against the Romans in Gaul and elsewhere, against the English in Scotland, again against the English in this country, and confirmed by personal research that many fought against the Union in the Civil War. After the Civil War, my ancestors fought for the United States in both World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam. I served during Desert Storm. If needed, I am willing to serve again.

20

I don’t understand why any of that was a personal insult to you.