I don’t think “contributing in other ways” really cuts it. You’re either willing to put your own ass on the line or you’re not.
AD, it looks like the question really pushed your buttons. You did read the thread title, but I think you missed the implications of the quotes around “patriot.” You are in fact a patriot. But how do you feel about those who supported the war, proclaim “These colors don’t run,” belittle those who opposed the war as cowardly, but do not step up to prevent 70 year olds and others with physical ailments from going to serve again, essentially in their place?
You are a man of honor, no doubt about it. Surely, you must grit your teeth when you see someone supporting the troops by slapping a magnet on their car, figuratively giving you a pat on the back as you deploy, so that they can go out and buy the newest Gameboy Advance game while you and those you care about put your asses on the line for Iraqi freedom.
I think folks like this are hypocritical pussies. I’ve spent the holiday season thinking what a sham this all is, this veneer of joy and consumerism, while others are dying for essentially no purpose. Does it really matter that Bettis gained nearly 150 yards and we kept a record winning streak alive?
If you support what we are doing over there, you are several thousand miles behind the lines, and people who have served and suffered for it already are being asked to do it again because of you. Fuck you.
I like your balls. I can remember when you were a rather cowering please-don’t-hit-me fly on the wall. You’ve become assertive, confident, and willing to stand steady for your principles. You’ve come a long way baby. I salute you. And I thank you for your bravery.
Yes. 
All of your other comments, however, require a better answer than that, and I don’t know that I can give one. Certainly not now, because I have to report in about an hour, so I’ll get back to this.
It’s easy to assert yourself when you’re holding the upper hand. What’s hard is sticking to your guns when it’s an unpopular stance. I don’t know that I’ve changed that much. You might say that I’m more responsible, but then I go out and wreck my car. You might say that I’m a stand-up guy, but I can barely provide for my family.
I appreciate the accolades, but I don’t think they’re warranted just yet.
I wouldn’t be going for the ideology. I would be going because a) there are people over there that matter to me, b) I would be taking the place of someone who really doesn’t want to go, and c) because I genuinely care about the welfare of the Iraqi people.
Do you think that I want to go and kill an Iraqi for Jesus? I don’t. I’d rather do my part to make it a better place, and if that means that I take the place of a bitter, resentful, disillusioned person who would only abuse the Iraqis for something that the vast majority of them are not responsible for, so be it.
We made the mess, we have to clean it up. Abu Ghraib is not how it’s done. If it takes me to make sure that something like that never happens again I’ll go in a heartbeat. If my comrades are in a pitched battle with insurgents who are trying to ensure that the future of Iraq is tumultuous, I’ll do it.
My ideology is not that of the Administration. My ideology is what I think is best for my country.
Do you have any idea of the logistical train behind each frontline soldier, sailor, or pilot? Who do you think makes all those aircraft, ships, guns, bullets, even clothes?
True enough. But I’d wager that many of the “patriots” who’ve been chearleading for war and telling us to love-it-or-leave-it haven’t even done those things.
Hell, I’ll go one further. I’d wager that many of the “patriots” haven’t given a single penny or instant of their time.
I doubt the Administration cares what you think. Even if you personally want to ‘clean up’ Iraq, the fact is that you and your countrymen are being used to dig a deeper and deeper hole there.
Well, to play devil’s advocate (by which I mean I do not necessarily espouse this view personally), a vote DOES mean 100% commitment in some ways. After all, when you vote, it IS all or nothing. You can’t vote 75% for Joe Schmuck because you like his fiscal policies and 25% for Billy Weiner because you like his haircut.
I still like your balls. They’ll take care of the rest eventually.
Yes, AD, you have very nice balls.
All good and honourable reasons.
I have a question about that last sentence: What are ther Iraqis responsible for? The did not invade and messed up their own nation.
Problem is that now more and more mess is created and I see no way how it can be “cleaned up” by brutal military (foreign) force. It shall only create more and more mess.
Again a very honourable position to take and with which I can only sympathise, although I very much question the general way of operating of the US army. Not only in Abu Ghraib.
[quote]
If my comrades are in a pitched battle with insurgents who are trying to ensure that the future of Iraq is tumultuous, I’ll do it.
[/quote)
Once again a question here: How on earth do you know that people in Iraq fighting the invaders do this “to ensure the future of Iraq is tumultuous”? How do you know about their motives, what made them decide to fight the invaders, what drives them and what their goals are? They are in their own country, remember.
With this I have a lot of problems. What do you think is "good’ for your country in this Iraq massacre?
Salaam. A
All good and honourable reasons.
I have a question about that last sentence: What are the Iraqis responsible for? The did not invade and messed up their own nation.
Problem is that now more and more mess is created and I see no way how it can be “cleaned up” by brutal military (foreign) force. It shall only create more and more mess.
Again a very honourable position to take and with which I can only sympathise, although I very much question the general way of operating of the US army. Not only in Abu Ghraib.
[quote]
If my comrades are in a pitched battle with insurgents who are trying to ensure that the future of Iraq is tumultuous, I’ll do it.
[/quote)
Once again a question here: How on earth do you know that people in Iraq fighting the invaders do this “to ensure the future of Iraq is tumultuous”? How do you know about their motives, what made them decide to fight the invaders, what drives them and what their goals are? They are in their own country, remember.
With this I have a lot of problems. What do you think is "good’ for your country in this Iraq massacre?
Salaam. A
Still… even if many serve and will serve voluntarily in Iraq… doesn’t change the fact that there is X enthusiasm for the War and its “positive” effects… vs [< X] volunteers for the job needed.
Naturally not all Bush voters are pro-war… but a good number are. They are quite numerous and obviously 7000 volunteers is not a “HUGE” number of people when you compare it to millions and millions of happy voters.
Hawkishness I think is what is being criticized… not the men serving the military.
So you’re against the war, though you feel some good came of it. Now, where is that good you speak of exactly? Are you talking about Bush and his military cronies who are raping the american people and making huge profits off the war? Maybe you meant the iraqi people. Well, considering life in iraq is worse right now than it was under Saddam, that must not be it. How about the media? Blood is always great for them, driving up ratings and of course profits. Our troops? That would be a tough sell considering how many of them are refusing to go back, not to mention very low enlistment levels. Maybe the war is an effective tool in fighting terrorists? Well, a special forces and intelligence war around the world combined with diplomacy is a good way of combatting terrorism, but a made for tv war? Not so much. I’d still like someone to explain to me how you drop a 2000 lb bomb on a terrorist. Bush blowing up buildings looks like he’s doing something productive, but in reality he is not. Check that, our soldiers blowing up buildings, because our brave leader would never do the dirty work himself. Just like his #2 man DICK “5 deferments” Cheney. In fact, this war is actually good for terrorists. It’s yet another reason for them to hate America and recruit more people. Furthermore, it’s great for Bin Laden because now we have fewer resources devoted to finding that psycho.
Let me now organize this list of “good” aspects of the war.
Good
-George W. Bush
-Dick “the prick” Cheney, hey at least he has multiple nicknames
-Republicans who stay in power b/c of american fear and ignorance
-Military contractors
-Anyone at all associated with oil, like Hailliburton
-Media
-Terrorists
-Bin Laden
-Saudi Arabia
-Government in general b/c war gives them a great excuse to not only exercise, but expand their power and control
Bad
-U.S. people
-Iraqi people
-Our troops
-Saddam
-World
So overall, you are correct, the war IS good for some people. I just didn’t know you were a terrorist or a big time political asshole. Now that this is cleared up, I understand why you will not condemn Bush and his war. In fact, you voted for a mass murderer b/c there are more important issues like fiscal irresponsibility and keeping those damn gays from ruining our 50% divorce rate, i mean sanctity of marriage. Nice to know people still vote for those core values of greed and power resulting in murder.
I’ll tell ya what, Leroy, I tried to enlist in 2000 and I was turned down because of cancer. I support Bush and I support this war, it’s real easy for you fuckers who sit on your fat opinionated critical lefty asses and tout this sorry assed rhetoric because you’re a fucking coward who wouldn’t defend your little sister in a schoolyard ass kicking contest. You don’t support your president, you don’t support your troops and therefore you think you have a right to stand on your pathetic soapbox running your cakehole with “see, I don’t support the war so I don’t have to fight it” in the back of your addled mind.
Get a life and fuck off with the tude, you are in no position to tell me shit one about what I support or what I am willing to do to support it. :wally
See, I think the observation was made that the National Guard in particular (and I think all branches of the service, too, but correct me if I am wrong) are falling short of their recruitment numbers, by significant margins. It is also the case that Bush was re-elected by a majority, with some people claiming that he had a mandate. It seems a fair question to ask why, if so many people support the policies and decisions of Bush, and this war in particular, why enlistment numbers would be so far off the mark. Aren’t you more troubled by people who support the war effort but do not enlist? Why not?
Now, you claim you tried to enlist. I appreciate and applaud that. I am also sorry that you are suffering from cancer. But your assertions about opponents of the war, Democrats and liberals are bullshit. Further, take your head out of your ass and understand the point here. If you did try to enlist, great, the charge does not apply to you. Don’t be so defensive, or at least answer as to why you are so defensive of hypocritical fucks.
I think it is you sir who has the addled mind. I’m not sure why the people who realize that this war is a disaster should have to be the ones going over and getting blown up, especially since it has nothing to do with America being threatened.
Would YOU fight for a war you didn’t support, or do you automatically support any war your President decides to start?
Pssst.
You’re also supposed to say “And you sleep under the very blanket of freedom that we provide, you ungrateful hippies!”
And, by the way, why is it sorry assed rhetoric to point out that there are a hell of a lot of rightists cheerleading for the war, saying it’s a great thing that other people are killing, and dying, and having limbs blown off. But, what? Go over themselves? Surely you jest! Monday night football is on. And the couch is very comfortable. And Iraq has a lot of sand and…
Hell no I don’t. He’s fucking over
[ul]
[li]Education[/li][li]The enviornment[/li][li]Our global standing[/li][li]The “war on terror”[/li][li]The American scientific community[/li][li]The perceived honesty and honor of our government[/li][li]The economy[/li][li]Civil liberties[/li][/ul]
I would ask why you do support someone who is so bad for America, but I suspsect you’d answer with sound bites and talking points.
Just a hunch.
Are you one of those love-it-or-leave-it crowd that can’t mentally walk and chew bubble gum?
You realize that we support the troops by not wanting them to fight, kill, and die in a bad war?
Our support for the troops involves wanting them to come home alive.
It’s just funny that the people who wanted the troops over there for no good reasons at all, who are responsible for our men and women coming back maimed and mutilated if not in boxes, the people who fucking cheerlead for the war, they’re somehow supporting our troops?
Listen buddy, I hope nobody ever ‘supports’ me like that, I"d rather not die in some godforsaken DMZ to satisfy some occult presidential goals.
And, yes.
I don’t support the war, it is a bad idea, we shouldn’t have done it, and it will have disasterous consequences for the entire world.
So, no, I don’t have to fight in it.
Because I am not giving life and limb to a war which is a fucking bad war.
Sorry.
You at least put your money where your mouth is, but cancer is no excuse for idiocy. (Your conduct in this thread, no supporting your convictions).
In other words, you weren’t the target of the OP.