I finally found myself with the funding and room to build something. I’ve graduated college and have a decent income and I bought a house with a garage big enough for two cars and a project.
I have a 1985 Pontiac Trans-Am that I was considering restoring. The problem is that the car would take a lot of work. The interior is shot and would have to be completely replaced. It has a tired 305 which would be worthless to supe up, so it too would have to be replaced. It has an auto tranny - no self respecting hotrod has an auto IMHO.
The car does have some things going for it. It has a lot of sentimental value. I used to use it to pick up chicks when I was in the USAF. I have a lot of great memories of cruising around Panama City with the t-tops open. It handled great - really stuck to the road. And, there’s no rust on the body, but it does have a few dents and dings.
But, I got to thinking. Even if I stuck a bunch of money in this thing, it will still be an '85 Trans-Am. I could probably pick one up in good condition for a couple thousand bucks. They are all over the place.
So, here’s my new plan. I want to build a Cobra replica. I have the mechanical skills and knowledge to rebuild an engine from the block up. I can weld steel. I’m sure I’m capable of this project, but I don’t know where to start.
I’ve found websites that sell kits, but they sell a full rolling chasis. I want to build my own. I’m planning on buying a fiberglass body, so I want to know if there are plans to build a chasis that will fit the body. Also, I could save some money by reusing parts of my Trans-Am. The wheels and tires, the rear axle and driveshaft, the steering assembly, the suspension, …
Before I go too far, I want to see if I get any feedback here. If you know of any other sites that have forums for this kind of thing, I’d like to hear some of those as well.
Done and done. Anyone’s advice is welcome, but Tuckerfan is the only one I’m aware of one this site that would have experience with this type of thing.
Many many years ago, Holmes (A company that builds tow trucks) had an ad called the truck that Jack built. It had a cartoon of a tow truck that had all kinds of shit on it, and obviously did not work very well. The part I remember best was it had a small dingy mounted on a set of davits. On the bow of the dingy it said S.S. Jack.
The reason I mention this is that building your own frame you run a real risk of winding up with the S.S. Brewha.
Also do not underestimate the amount of time you are talking about to build a frame, and get it right. There is a better than even chance that you will find a thing called life gets in the way of a multi-thousand hour project.
If you think restoring the Trans-am is a lot of work, just wait till you try and build the entire thing from scratch. :smack:
You are correct about not sinking a bunch of money into the Trans-Am, if you look around you can probably find one where a guy spent 20K to restore one, and is selling it for 10K. He is going to lose a little on each one he builds, but he will make it up in volume.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of building your own car. I am considering it right now. I just want to get mine done in a reasonable amount of time and get out driving it.
Go visit WWW.Factoryfive.com and see what they have to offer. Probably the single best Cobra kit on the market. The start with 4" round tubing just like the MKIII Cobra did, only they have the advantage of CAD to make the chassis even stronger than it was back in the day. They will set the frame up to accept which ever engine you decide, but most builders choose to go with either the 302 or 351 Ford engines. Factory five also has a very active message board where members get answers to various questions about building and maintaining their cars. Kind of a SDMB for building kit cars.
I am giving one of these cars serious consideration. Very serious consideration.
To the point of I am planing to visit their factory next month. If you have any further questions, feel free to reply here, or drop me an e mail.
I fully grasp the amount of time it will take to build a car. My original plan was to build an airplane. I have the knowledge and resources to that as well. I’ve decided against it since I don’t think I’d use a plane as much as a car, I’d have to pay $200+ a month to store it at an airport, and I’d have to drive to the airport to play with it.
If I build a Cobra, I can keep it in my garage and take it out to play whenever the weather’s good and the mood strikes. For me, I’m not building a car so I have a car. If I just wanted a sports car, I’d go buy a used corvette or something. I’m building the car for the build - it’s something I like to do. If I buy a rolling chasis, it’s more like assembling an erector set than building a car. This isn’t something I’m planning on driving this summer or the summer after that. It’s something I can work on in my spare time and eventually end up with a car that has everything I want in a car.
I’m not intending to sound snarky, I am interested in what everyone has to say. I guess I’m just a bit defensive because it seems that you assumed that I am getting in over my head.
I checked out that site and it has me even more excited about starting this project. Their kits require a donor car, but it is understandably a Mustang. I wonder if they would accomdate a GM donor car.
If you really, really, have your heart set on reviving your 1985 Trans-Am, I’d say do that, otherwise you’re liable to lose interest in the project. Mind you, lots people restore cars that they know going into, they’ll never be able to get the money out of them that they put into the cars. Even Jay Leno admits that he’ll never make make money off of some of his cars. (Given the fact that it was owned by Leno probably adds another $100K to the value, that’s saying something.)
What you might consider doing is picking up some of the various kit car magazines. There’s at least one kit out there which is designed to use your era car as a donor (though the only one I can think of is damned ugly). Before you plunk down the money to buy a kit, do your research as some of the companies are rather fly-by-night. Most of the magazines have columns and online forums devoted to pointing out who the deadbeats in the industry are. These guys sell plans on how to design and build your own fiberglas car body, so you could do your own unique car.
Oh, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that you can buy a fiberglas Tucker body (no interior, but all the trim) relatively inexpensively. The molds were taken from a real Tucker. Let me know if you want the contact info for the guy who’s selling them. There’s also a much more expensive Tucker kit you can order from Ida Automotive.
I wasn’t trying to be snarky either. I was just trying to point out that there are many pitfalls in the path you are considering.
I am also 30 years old than you, and have a life view that you do not. I have been 25 you have not been 55. I have worked around cars longer than you have been alive, and I have also worked on fabrication of race cars. Again not trying to be snarky, just trying to point out that I have experiences you do not.
Before you say the Factory Five kit is an erector set, spend some time looking at the forums, and the vendor ads. Guys are moving the firewalls, guys are changing the way hinges work, guys are changing the footwell size, different door panels, There was a thread on one of their forums about a guy that built a LeMans top for his roadster. Not to mention the engine and transmission combinations that you can put in.*
Many of the people over there talk about how their cars are never done, as they are in a constant state of improvement.
Compare this building a car to painting a picture. If you buy a pre-stretched canvas to paint your picture is it now a paint by numbers, or is it your painting? Me, I don’t think it is necessary to visit the lumber yard to buy wood to make the stretcher bars and staple the canvas on myself.
Again, follow your gut, enjoy the journey.
Oh yeah, the one rule about cars to remember is: No matter how good you are, and no matter how well you plan things, it’s always going to take twice as long and cost twice as much as you originally estimated.
Tuckerfan, the reason I’m reconsidering the T/A project is not about the resale value of the car when it’s done. I don’t think there are many cars that can be restored and sell for more than the person put into them. My reluctance is because when I’m done, I’ll still have a fairly common car. I want something that will turn heads when I’m driving it down the road.
If I can use the T/A as a donor car, my car will still be there in spirit (yeah, that is a cheesy way to look at it).
Rick, my erector set analogy was a gross oversimplification - I apologize if it offended you. I still want to build a car, not assemble a kit. I want to be able to work on this as my budget allows. It is much easier for me to buy $500 worth of steel and start welding than to drop $13,000 on a kit. I don’t know if plans for what I want to do exist or not.
I was hoping that I could find a set of plans that I could buy that has all the dimensions to build a tube frame for a Cobra from scratch.
I guess I could just start with the geometry from my T/A and build a frame up from there. I got some research to do.
There’s some pretty good books out there on frame design, one of which, IIRC, is Chassis Engineering. (Think that’s the title, have to check later when I have more time.)
Well, I probably could design my own frame. My degree and my profession is mechanical engineering. But, the frame I want has already been designed. I don’t see any reason to re-invent the wheel, I just want to copy what’s already been done.
I did some research to see if my plan of using Firebird parts on a Cobra would work. The wheelbase of the Firebird is 11" longer, but that shouldn’t matter since it will be defined by the frame.
The wheel track, at least for the rear wheels has already been defined by the axle. The Firebird is 4" wider than the Cobra. Any reason why I couldn’t flare the fenders out an extra 2" on each side? Would it be noticable?
Better look again. Automatic transmissions easily outnumber manuals in custom applications, they are much easier to install (no clutch to worry about) and are much easier to drive. I have a 66 GTO and I never considered a stick when I restored it. It is a nicely built turbo 400 and handles the 450+ horsepower the 400 in my GTO puts out no problem. Go visit some car show and gatherings when the weather warms up and count the types of tranny’s used.
Hey, you are not going to offend me. I don’t have much invested in your project. I am telling you that I have seen way more of these projects turn into beer holders in the garage than I have seen on the road. But hey it’s your life, your decision.
If you are going ahead with this, I strongly suggest you spend a few bucks and buy all of Carroll Smith’s books and read them. I don’t care what your degree is in, or what your experience level, you will learn stuff from Mr. Smith The books are:
Prepare to Win
Engineer to Win
Tune to win
Carroll Smith’s Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook
All of these are available either new or used from Amazon.
Depends upon how you do it. The folks building the Cobras with Viper V-10s in them had to make the cars slightly longer, but you can’t really tell. A properly done flare job would only be noticable by someone intimately familiar with the design. Don’t forget that you’re going to have to make an accomidation for the front wheels as well. They’ll need to be able to move properly in the wheel wells or you’ll have a really sucky turn radius. Here’s a list of things that you can do:[ul]
[li]Flare the fenders[/li][li]Ditch your current rear end and replace it with one that will fit.[/li][li]Narrow your rear end.[/li][li]Slice the body down the center and widen it by 4 inches.[/ul][/li]
The last one’s the most work, I’ll admit, but done right, it’s also the most subtle. I saw a replica of a Porshce Spyder that someone had done this with and I couldn’t tell that he’d done anything at all. It also gives you more room inside the car.
I think this is the wisest thing you’ve mentioned. I had a 1976 Pontiac Ventura. I toyed with restoring it, but since it was the Pontiac, not the Nova, the trim parts were impossible to come by, and when I was done with it…I’d be left with a 76 Pontiac Ventura. woo.
Their GTM supercar makes me weak in the knees. You want to turn heads with a car you build yourself using quality donor parts, you couldn’t do much better than the GTM. It uses a Corvette donor (relative to your T/A) and a Porshce transaxle to build a mid-engined car.
Folks have built cars from scratch…and with the advent of the internet, some of them have even been pretty good lookin’. (Others, not so much) The soup to nuts design however is a minefield of technical issues. I’d hate to spend years and tens of thousands of dollars to make a car that darts off the track due to suspension geometry changes under hard braking.
Now, my qualifications: I started with a 121,000 89 Corvette, then swapped out the entire driveline and suspension. It currently is mechanically complete and needs paint. In ‘restifying’ a pre-existing car, I still had a bunch of fabbing and engineering as a lot of speedparts aren’t built for the Corvette’s packaging.
Be that as it may, Locost cars (http://www.locostusa.com/) are similar from a technical standpoint, power to weight ratio, general lack of creature comforts, and mechanical approachability as the cobra cars you’re looking at.
Something else you might consider, is finding a classic car body that’s in halfway decent shape, but the running gears shot and sticking that on your T/A frame. You end up with a stylish vehicle that has fairly modern components. I’ve seen guys take Studebaker bodies which looked nice, but if they’d had to redo the frame, engine, etc. would have totally outstripped the potential resale value of the car, but because they happened to have a car with a similar wheelbase that had a shot body, but good mechanicals, they could do a “transplant” and come out ahead. This also makes it easy to find parts when you need new brakes and the like.
I’ve been thinking about this project over the weekend. I had decided on just restoring the T/A. I was planning on seeing if I could find a wrecked firebird or camaro at a junkyard as a donor for my interior.
This was before Unintentionally Blank posted that link to the Locost. That is exactly what I want - a light, simple car with lots of power. I’m gonna do some more research on that.
Tuckerfan, I hadn’t thought about doing a body switch, but that is an interesting idea as well. I was under the impression that the Gen 3 T/A was a unibody - I could be wrong though.
The original premise was that you could build a purpose-built racecar for 250£ (!) essentially using a wrecking yard Ford Escort and some welding skills.
Well, I looked into it, and I don’t think the Locost is for me. It approachs racecar design by using grace and finesse. It’s a lightweight car with a small high revving engine. I have the American caveman mentality. If I find that me and my club are outmatched by my opponent, I don’t invent a crossbow - I get a bigger club.
Lightweight car, not a very small engine. I’ve done the sledgehammer 'merican route and find that traction-limited is fun for a bit, and as long as it’s still in the garage, I can look at other cars.
