Well, we can hope. Hopefully the UN will turn over a new leaf so to speak and actually be some help…THIS time.
-XT
Well, with that I concur. Such superior infantry, and perfect for these kinds of wars. Why the UN/UK/US don’t take up heavy recruitment there is beyond me. Make them happy, make us happy, send money into an economy that desperately needs it and suppress the Maoists at the same time.
Back in the day, I heard the former Hong Kong garrison was disbanded and offered jobs on cruise ships. Fat sunburned women across the world having their umbrella drinks guarded by former Gurkha infantry, it’s an abomination!
Handy for sorting out piracy :-}
Actually I reckon the Maoists are just the ones that did not make the grade, I believe UK recruitment tailed off. In those circumstances I would be a bit hacked off.
I’ve heard of ex-Ghurkas working in a supermarket car park in the UK
- rather effectively
Actually it sounds from the latest news, that the French will be the backbone of the UN forces - makes sense, they were the cultural influence behind the Lebanon and Syria - and they would quite enjoy being controversial.
There is a good case for a standing UN ‘attack force’
- people would think twice if the UN were not at all ‘nice’.
You would then accept Hizbollah attacking your supply roads and air ports in Israel because the US is supplting Israel with arms.This would be legitimate warfare.
CNN yesterday aired a story saying the war has increased membership in Hezbollah. That 100.000 refugees and 40 bill in damage will radicalize many people.
When the air clears they will come out from the rubble and say “it is not about me”
But many jobs are gone. For many they wont be able to get around. Bodies will be found. The cleanup will enormous. Their lives will be disrupted. Friends and relatives are dead.
You think they will change their attitude to something peacrful. They will blame Hezbollah . I don’t think so.
Would you care to pull your argument out of the looking glass any time soon? I know you’ve stated that you take an idea and then deliberately make it as absurd as possible, but all that does is make your positions absurd.
Remind me, again, how many American roads and airports there are in Israel?
If, however, you are asking whether or not Hezbollah targeting legitimate dual-use targets rather than civilians would be better? Do you honestly need to ask that? Yes, in a vacuum, it is better to target valid targets than deliberately attempt to kill civilians. That earns a big ol’ duh.
But with your characteristic style of argumentation, you’ve again made your argument irrelevant and absurd. You’ve ignored that Hezbollah’s goal is genocide, while Israel’s is peace with its neighbors. Do you think I should support Hezbollah’s genocidal ambitions? Just because they might’ve launched a purely military drive to commit genocide, and decided to slaughter all the Israelis once they defeated their military?
I should support something like that, merely because of the method of war?
Are you for real?
Remind me, again, if Israel has a stated goal of genocide against its neighbors?
You can deliberately ignore, all you want, that Israel has a long, long history of attempting to make peace, while its enemies have deliberate and overt genocidal goals. You can ignore that one is morally entitled to do more to prevent their genocide than to cause the genocide of someone else.
You can ignore the actual situation, and try to set up these silly equivalencies; ignoring that Israel uses its weapons to defend itself while its enemies use theirs to attempt the genocide of the Israelis.
Par for the course with you.
I do not ignore Israels attempts to make peace on their terms. Are we shippimg weapons by air?. My foolish guess is yes. Making them legitimate targets. If Israelies use them for other things too bad. It does not make my argument absurd but makes the logical extension of yours a logical falacy. So the roads and airports in Lebanon are Syrian and Iranii. You say their aim is genocide. I say they are paper tigers that talk like big shots and you take them literally. Sadaam got us in the mother of all wars. They seem to try to rally the troops by huge ewxaggeration. Do you believe in the remotest darkspots of their minds that they nthink they can eliminate Israel ? For crying out loud they are nuclear, aggressive and have by far the most powerful army i the region.
You’ve already stated that your goal is to make your arguemnts absurd, but such willful ignorance of what I just said will not fly. You are deliberately ignoring what I just got finished saying about the validity of the goal to commit genocide, and to avoid being annihilated. If you’re going to ignore the actual argument in favor of your stated policy of absurdities, you’re not worth anybody’s time.
And as a supposed supporter of negotiation, you should certainly know that everybody negotiates on their own terms whenever they can. It’s called bargaining from a position of strength. Otherwise it’d be called making concessions.
But of course you need to add the rhetorical caveat “on their own terms”. Ignoring that Israel isn’t genocidal, their enemies are, and Israel has attempted to make peace. Your handwaving it away does nothing.
:rolleyes: Claiming that a side attempting to commit genocide is valid if they target military targets is, indeed, your characteristic absurd and laughable rhetoric.
Stating that no matter what targets they inititially attack, genocide isn’t justified is not a logical fallacy. Somehow I’m not surprised that you’re unable to grok that.
Yes yes, their stated goals aren’t valid because you don’t want them to be. Your post is your cite.
With people like you eating up their PR? Of course they can. Enough UN sanctions, enough boycotts, enough UN “peacekeepers” blockading Israel’s ability to rearm? Israel is a strong nation, but it’s not invulnerable.
You deliberately ignore that in many cases the stated goals are multi-generational.
Yeah, so damned aggressive.
Take your bogus rhetoric and tell it to Egypt and Jordan.
Or explain how attempting to stop people from deliberately murdering your civilians is ‘aggressive’.
Whatever. You’ve stated that you deliberately take your positions to logical absurdities. Your rhetoric is wilfully ignorant, and you have a track record of excusing groups like Hezbollah ("they’re not really genocidal, they, erm… they don’t mean it. Yeah… cuz I say so.) and then blaming Israel for defending itself as ‘aggressive’. And then you pretend to be a moderate.
You have nothing of value to contribute to these debates, at all. So unless you change your behavior, I’m done with you.
To elaborate, the arguments you contribute lack all value, and by your own admission, are deliberately absurd.
I have no idea if you, personally, have anything of value to contribute. You might be hiding it once, and you’ll stop trying to make absurd arguments once the starts are in the correct alignment. I don’t know.
But if those worthless arguments are all you have to contribute, then you can’t contribute any valuable arguments, only chaff.
I’ve done this dance with enough people that I don’t need to indulge someone who deliberately tries to make his arguments irrelevant and absurd. I’m not biting at that bait.
Nope I state your arguments are absurd and end nowhere. The extension to absurdities are yours ,I just follow them.
There are probably people in Lebanon that want Israel gone. How many? I do not know. There are people in Iraq, Iran,Germany, Egypt and the US that want the same. If the airports in Lebanon are legitinate targets ,then so are Israeli. Israel is getting weapons shipped by air from us. Who ships by air to Lebanon. Israel owns the skies.I would be amazed if any air shipments could get through.
I suspect the roads in Lebanon are Lebanese. They are strips of land that have led to Damascus and other cities for centuriies.
How many American roads. Same number as Syrian. Zero.They are Lebanese.
This where I should say all your arguments generate from the idea that Lebanon really wants to destroy Israel. Some do. However most are probably peace loving people just trying to get along. If you believe these coutries all just exist to kill off Israel. , there can be no peace til you take them out. I pity your future.
Finn…you know I love ya. You have definitely fought the good fight on this subject and you have my admiration over it. But…there is simply no getting through to this guy. Logic bounces off him. The facts? He doesn’t WANT to know the facts…they also bounce off his impregnerable self assurance and ignorance. Sarcasm? He doesn’t get it because simply put he hasn’t got a clue what the issues are, doesn’t have a clue what the facts are, and is convinced he knows all…and we are the deluded ones.
Give up my friend. If anyone REALLY wanted to debate this stuff they would be engaging fully in the debate, instead of these inane drive by postings. I note that in all the related threads very few 'dopers actually attempted to engage on Hezbollah’s side. I think that says something right there.
Anyway, I just wanted to say something before your head explodes. 
-XT
Could it be I don’t find your arguments pursuasive.Wait,I don’t accept your facts.
Yes it says we live in America. There is little support for the middle east here. I am not sure I support them. i just do not see them as 100% wrong and Israel as 100% right. That is an absurdity right there. All right all wrong. rediiculous.
Please give me one thing Israel is wrong in.
I’d say this would be obvious to the average brick wall at this point. What you don’t seem to get is…disagreement is what drives this board. What is annoying coming from you is…you don’t even make a good faith attempt to engage the debate, to attempt to counter others assertions with either logic or facts of your own, etc etc. In short you aren’t worth the time with your constant drive-bys, screeds and links posted without comment or quote.
Certainly I can. Off the top of my head, the biggest thing Israel did wrong was procrastinating on the territories it captured in its various wars. Israel SHOULD have either annexed the territory directly as prizes of war or turned it back over to the folks they took it from. IMHO this was a MAJOR fuckup by Israel…one of many.
You see, what you don’t seem to get is that while Israel haven’t exactly been saints, they constantly maintain the moral high ground (at least to those who bother to actually LOOK at the issues, STUDY the REAL history, and, well, think) because its neighbors have been a pack of jackles from the start. Several of those neighbors eventually figured things out though, as Finn has attempted to get through your thick skull…and THEY aren’t having major problems with Israel anymore. Its only those who refuse to accept the FACT that Israel is there to stay that still have problems.
Anyway, I’ve wasted enough time with you I think. You refuse to engage the debate, you toss out unsupported bullshit and obvious propaganda cites as if they are fact, and frankly I’m bored. If you ever want to debate this subject in earnest I recommend at least TRYING to learn some of the rudimentary facts, study at least SOME of the history, and learn how to engage in a debate before trying again. Just some free advice (that I’m sure you will ignore or scorn).
-XT
Yeah, I’ve pretty much done so on this topic with this poster.
I wouldn’t even be sure what to say at this point, as it seems that this guy honestly believes what he’s claiming. I’d ask about the status of the Israeli campaign of genocide against Egypt and Jordan, but I wouldn’t want to complicate his screed with facts.
I mean, obviously the only way one could fight a war, or protect their borders, or sever logistical supply lines, is to wipe out every single person in a country. It makes perfect sense…
And he honestly believes that that bit of absurdity isn’t invented out of whole cloth by him, but somehow resident in my argument. I don’t even know how to begin pointing out that things wrong with that.
So yeah, I’m done engaging folks like this for the forseeable future.
I grow weary now. An earlier poster Nietzche was called
Intellectually dishonest several times
Twice he was just malking stuff up\Told you cant argue with intellectual dishinesty
said he is lying
\ Deliberately ignores sites
Gonzomax
Doesnt bother reading sites (not true)
My site dissed as leftist crap
wont read because didnt like Bush picture
full of shit
drive by poster
Enough for now.You guys can go on and agree with each other. Other opinions are not tolerated
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact long but interesting.