Hillary fans don't get it.

First, Germany and France can be reached by a direct land route from the ME. There aren’t going to be a million migrants here, or anywhere near that…and any that do come here will have to go through our immigration system. You can’t compare the US to Europe. Nor is the ‘confusion’ that will allow terrorists to mill about smartly and sneak over borders in a crowd going to happen either.

Try some statistics that apply here…except that they don’t support your point, do they? In fact, they refute it.

Just another straw man to promote profiling and bigotry.

What is this “greater later evil”? And when has it ever worked to let the other guy win to foster a revolution?

I try to keep up with things, but must confess I had not heard of the Gatestone Institute until you cited their wisdom and probity. Upon Google, I see descriptions of them as a neo-conservative “think tank”. Do you agree with this assessment? Aside from their sympathy and approval for your agenda, can you offer us any other reason to pay them some special heed?

Just like the Mexicans do, right? There’s an international law preventing migrants from traveling to Mexico and crossing the border that way, right? …right you guys?

They do? Where are they? Oh you haven’t posted any? Well it must have been a mistake on your part. I’ll wait.

Well that didn’t take long this time around.

…I wonder if they had any sources for the article…I wonder if they even bothered mentioning them.

You know, if you actually took the time to read the first two paragraphs you could see that it’s not really Gatestone saying much of anything beyond what’s been said before.

Based on Trump’s incredible inaccuracy and inconsistency so far, I’m not sure about anything he says or plans to do (and it’s wild to me that you are “sure” about anything he’ll do, especially when it directly conflicts with his words). I certainly don’t trust that he’ll have anything close to a reasonable, rational, or consistent plan to combat terrorism.

Well, Breitbart apparently holds them in some esteem. How very reassuring!

Just to be clear, when folks post strawmen arguments that promote bigotry, and they get called on it quickly, that’s a feature, not a bug.

Yeah, I’m sure ICE is worried about those millions of Syrian refugees catching a cruise liner to Panama City, walking across the entire height of Central America and Mexico, and sneaking across our border. Happens all the time, right? Try a relevant objection.

It’s been posted several times before, so I was hoping I wasn’t going to have to hunt it down. But if you want it, you got it:

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime

For no good, realistic reason, singling out immigrants based on their religion to deny them access to the country.

^ Profiling and bigotry based on religion. ^

With Drumpf, it never does.

Trump identifies as a Trump not a Drumpf. Who are you to question his self-identity?

I assumed you were a democrat and supported things like the right to choose and marriage equality. If you aren’t… Um… What’s this thread about, exactly? The opinion of a republican on how terrible Clinton is and how he can’t support her is not interesting or impressive, even if this is a somewhat new angle on it.

And as for this applying to basically any republican candidate: why yes. Yes it does. So what? Yeah, there are Trump-specific things that are obviously even nastier - his stated contempt for the free press, his support of medieval torture, his demands to target non-combatants, his advocacy of plunder (you may note that all of these are currently banned under international treaties that the USA has signed)… Lots of very good reasons why he’s special. But I can think of perfectly fine reasons why you should stand up and vote against him that would apply to any republican candidate!

Because, you know, Trump’s nominees are so much more likely to go the right way on these cases than Hillary’s. Right? Is that the point you’re trying to make? Because if so, I would love to see you justify that. And if not, then what is the point? That you don’t care about anything except a tiny handful of issues, and are willing to ignore literally everything else support the guy who is even more against you on those issues just to spite a candidate you see as bad news?

Oh, and by the way? No, I’m not letting Obergfell go. That’s a really big deal. Extending a fundamental right to the LGBT community that they should have had for ages is not something you just “let go of”. It’s a landmark event, on par with the civil rights act of 1964, and diminishing it because you want to talk economics is stupid and short-sighted.

I get it just fine. You think treading water or a slight move in the right direction is worse than a huge move in the wrong direction. I’m curious, just how fucking terrible would a candidate have to be for you to accept that you should vote against them, even if the candidate was mildly distasteful to you? Trump obviously ain’t gonna do it, how about Berlusconi? Assad, maybe? What’s it gonna take for you to wake up and smell the turd blossoms? (Flung, one must assume, by the racist howler monkey with a bad haircut.)

Gore would still have won. Nadar had 97,000+ votes in Florida to Buchanan’s 17,000+. From here, scroll down quite a bit.

The reason no one talks about the Buchanan voters in 2000 is because how they voted didn’t make a difference in the outcome.

It’s not hard to find the answer to that question. In Florida, if all the Nader voters had voted for Gore and all the Buchanan voters had voted for Bush, Gore would have won the state by 79,500 votes instead of losing it by 500.

In fact, Nader got more votes than all the other third-party candidates combined. The question isn’t “What if all the Nader voters hade voted for Gore.” It’s “what if the voters who didn’t really support Nader but threw away their vote in a protest had voted for Gore.” Given that the Green Party got more than 2 million votes more than they did before or since the 2000 election, and Buchanan only got a total of 449,000 votes nationwide, it’s a crystal clear exaqmple of what a protest vote can do.

See also Wallace, George 1968 and Perot, Ross 1992.

OK, one, SCOTUS is not going to overturn Obergefell. Not in the next eight years, not in the next twenty. That’s a fantasy.

That said: SSM is not that important to working-class Americans, compared to the loss of jobs, which is commonly believed to be to “foreigners.” How incredibly privileged it is to talk about “happiness” when people are losing their homes.

Blaming trade & immigration is not entirely fair, it’s not entirely true, but it’s a common belief, has been for decades. Trump speaks to it, Sanders speaks to it. Hillary is a free-trader, and that is dangerous to the electoral hopes of the Democratic Party.

Clinton Democrats dismiss the fears and biases of most of the working class base as “racism” and “bigotry,” then pat themselves on the back for being wise and good. Then they lose legislative elections.

What’s hilarious is that Sanders supporters are denounced as “purists” because we want someone who’s minimally acceptable to workers and the peace movement. Considering how these urban professionals seem to think anyone with grease under their nails is an icky impure backward person, I think this may be psychological projection.

I live in Missouri. A state which I think Hillary cannot win unless movement conservatives stay home or vote third party, and maybe even then.

I’m not disagreeing that Trump will be terrible.

What you don’t understand is that Clinton is strategically a bad candidate and a worse leader for the party. Her only hope to win this election was Donald Trump winning and alienating half the GOP base. Great, that seems to have happened. That buys the Democrats two years if you’re lucky. And then? The Republican Red Deluge.

If you tell working-class whites that they don’t need an industrial policy, they don’t need jobs, they just need cheap Wal-Mart goods made in Vietnam, and then you play to QUILTBAG and ethnic minorities to win, you do two things: First, you lose. Second, you give the majority more reason to hate QUILTBAG and ethnic minorities. I scoff at people who think Democrats are anti-American, but free traders, in effect, may as well be.

I’m begging you. Vote for Sanders if you’re in the last handful of states. Abandon TPP, abandon NAFTA, increase marginal income taxes, increase domestic spending. Create infrastructure jobs. Send the Clinton/Rubin/Summers financialization crowd packing. Or you’ll end up with a lot worse than a moderately liberal New Yorker like Trump, pretty soon.

I’m worried about other people–including my gay & African-American neighbors–being able to keep their homes. What kind of economic education have you ever had?

One of the great philosophers of the letter M–Maslow:
If people’s basic needs aren’t being met, virtue and tolerance will be discarded as apparently unaffordable luxuries.

Ted Cruz. Three years from now, when Trump has led us into a world war which we are losing, I will smile and say, “At least Ted Cruz isn’t president.” I am not actually kidding.

Please. Are you still buying into Bernie’s bullshit line about actually having a chance to win the nomination? If so, I want some of what you’re smoking. Whatever his actual politics, Trump is reactionary in the purest sense of the word. He hasn’t got the sense or diplomacy of a Rottweiler.

So…let me get this straight…incremental change will ruin the country but radical change will fix it all? Give me a break.

Your gay and African American neighbors, who statistically speaking voted solidly (in the case of the gay neighbors) or overwhelmingly (in the case of the African American ones) *against *your candidate. Your gay and African American neighbors, who care about issues that you obviously don’t care about, and vote in ways that you consider counterproductive to what they should be voting for. Such a shame that they have to go and spoil the narrative…

I know it’s only a minority of Sanders folks who believe this, but boy they sure are loud: the only votes that “count” are those of working class whites (and their well-to-do largely white allies), who alone among poorer Americans have the wisdom and foresight necessary to vote according to their own interests. All those “racial minorities” are deluded, low-information, stupid, or all of the above.

It’s a very, very peculiar way of looking at the world.