That might be the single stupidest post to this thread, though I hesitate to say in light of the competition.
What-the-fuck-ever asshole.
You don’t get to claim that every word of the bible is absolute divinely given law, as these dumbfucks do, then ignore it when the “divinely given law” says what you do is wrong.
By claiming biblical innerancy they have stated their beliefs on the matter whether they ignore them or not.
And hello to you too.
Maybe they do get to make these claims, maybe they don’t - that would be a GD discussion (and I believe there are actually previous threads on these subjects).
What you don’t get to do is to declare outright that someone else believes in something if you can only say that you personally think this is a consequence of their other beliefs.
Elementary concept - not sure if you disagree with this in general or only when you’re out to attack people that you hate.
Look, I’m not trying to run all over the board condemning everyone. It seems to me that on this board quoting what the word of God says about something is equivalent to being a condemning hate filled bigot. Not so. If it wasn’t there in black and white in the Bible, I could see your anger. But certain things are clearly condemned so why jump all over me and those who believe the same as me when we simply are quoting something God says? Needless to say, we are all sinners, but there are distinctions. There’s a difference between a person recognizing a sin, turning from it, and asking forgiveness compared to refusing to recognize it and repent of it and stop doing it. Christians can fall into sin but we certainly recognize and know we are sinning. That’s different (not an excuse, of course) than those who refuse to acknowledge and recognize that theyr’e living in sin.
Christans aren’t perfect but we strive to be what God wants and we’re supposed to tell other people the truth, to warn of wickedness such as in Ezekiel 3:18-19. We are accountable to Him if we never say anything to anyone about their behavior and their need for Christ. Where’s the balance between not condemning someone yet telling the truth about their bahavior? You tell me. I don’t go around knocking on doors and telling people they’re sinners but if I’m in a situation or conversation and something comes up and I’m asked what I believe about something, I’m going to answer honestly. I didn’t bring up the subject of homosexuality. I was asked what I thought and I gave a truthful answer. I’ve been castigated ever since as being hateful.
You’re entitled to your opinion of me, of course, but I’m not a hate filled bigot just because I don’t hold to the major party line on this board. You see me as someone casting stones. I don’t see that. I’m just giving me belief on certain behaviors, etc. I’m not codemning people. That’s up to God. Anyway, I’m sure nothing I have to say is going to change anyone’s opinion of me since I dare to voice a belief that’s contrary to the majority.
H4E,
But could you address my question above? Is it indeed a precept of your religion that divorce and remarriage are forbidden? If you were to consult a theologian before the remarriage, would he say that you are still considered married to your previous spouse? If so, I am a bit puzzled about how the “burn with lust” excuse is more valid for you than for anyone else.
They say the bible is inerrant, every single word of it. They attack me and others like me for falling short of their “divinely given laws”. They ignore those same laws when they are inconvineint for them.
They accuse decent Christians who treat others with respect of “picking and choosing” what parts of the bible they follow. They claim they follow the whole thing.
therefore, they are hipocrites. fuckin’ duh!
Joe_Cool has had the indecency to claim that the victims of gay bashing “bring it on themselves” based on some peoples responses to his hateful attacks. Notice his response to being called a hypocrite… He calls others assholes who deserve top be beaten for rising to his bait, yet he behaves far worse when challenged.
To be perfectly honest, I’ve struggled with this before. I stayed married to my first husband as long as I possibly could because I knew God hated divorce. I was a fairly new Christian at the time. When he became physically (sexually) abusive, I had to leave. He even threatened to rape my sister once when she was going to come visit. It’s true that I’ve failed the Lord in this area of my life and that I should’ve no doubt remained single.
My second marriage came about because of rebound from a long term relationship with someone else that ended. I don’t want this to get enormously long so I’ll just say that although this is not an excuse, I believe that I probably behaved the way I did because of a desire to be loved. I didn’t grow up with a loving father in the home. I divorced this person also because I was miserable and started having imaginations where he would die and I could be free. After awhile I started thinking, hey you’re committing murder in God’s eyes. So at the time I considered that to be worse than the divorce.
There are different opinions in my faith as to the validness of divorce and remarriage. Some say not allowed at all and some may say only in certain cases, such as the adultery of one of the spouses. There are some who might consider first marriage partners to still be married to each other. Frankly, I don’t know what the answer is to divorce and remarriage. It’s better to remain single if you can control the sexual desire, according to scripture, but few seem to be able to do that.
If I had to pick one main thing to go back and change, it would be the sexual/marital area of my life. I’ve failed the Lord greatly here. I’ve asked Him to forgive me but it still bothers me at times. I’m now in my third marriage and there will be no more.
I’ve said more than I really wanted about my personal life here. I haven’t been a perfect Christian. I’m striving, with God’s help, to grow in Christ. However, in my humble opinion I don’t believe that means I should never speak out about anything. Perhaps you feel differently.
For whatever reason - either lack of understanding or obstinate refusal - you’ve chosen to eschew addressing the point, in favor of repeating yet again the same rhetoric that has been spewed throughout this thread. Your prerogative.
IzzyR, you have now put your finger on the central contradiction that has sent so many dopers into fits of frustration.
My previous post was directed to grendel, not H4E
H4E,
But would you acknowledge, then, that a person in a homosexual relationship - for the identical or similar reasons as you give for your remarriages - would be in the exact same boat as you from a religious standpoint?
You ask what their beliefs are on the issue of remarriage.
They claim that the whole of the Bible is god-given law, and use this as an attack on those Christians who treat others with respect. We know what the Bible has to say on the issue.
What more do you want?
A couple of possiblities suggest themselves offhand. Either they have some other interpretation of the passages in question (despite interpreting much of the Bible literally) or they have some other religious principle elsewhere which overrides this one in some cases. Or some other possibility. The fact that you may not feel that they are being consistent (if this were to be the case) would not make them hypocrites, though it would suffice for you as a reason to reject their religion.
Now it would seem that H4E does indeed hold remarriage to be forbidden, hence my question to her above. But this may not hold for all biblical literalists. I see that Qadgop has begun a thread asking about this in GQ - perhaps some knowledgeable people will chime in there.
This shit just makes me sick. Someone who claims to be a Christian, doesn’t behave like a Christian, then goes around judging others for their “sins.”
“My sins aren’t nearly as bad as those…”
His4ever you should be ashamed of yourself. You have sinned, then sinned again, then sinned again…according to “God’s law.” How dare you righteously declare
when you yourself are clearly guilty of this on more than one occasion.
I think it’s time to climb down off that high horse and apologize to those whom you have judged.
His4ever, the very next time you chime in during a conversation about homosexuality, stop and THINK about this.
You have NO CREDIBILITY!!! Get through your thick little skull?
I would not be so harsh, but you do not seem to get it. You do not understand how HURTFUL your words can be.
You say we cannot ignore what the Bible says-that’s what it says, that’s what you believe, it’s black and white, no exceptions.
However, when it contains something YOU do not want to do, you ignore it! And make excuses for yourself!
FWIW, I do not believe that divorce is a sin, and I have my doubts about the Bible and such. BUT…if you are going to claim that homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so, no exceptions, you CANNOT stand around and state the opposite when it comes to divorce. Because obviously, both are mentioned as grave sins in this book you claim to take literally.
GOT THAT???
Do you HONESTLY believe GOD would punish a person for LOVING someone? For something that they CANNOT control? Homosexuality isn’t really about sex-in the end, it’s about love and romance.
YOU admit that you couldn’t make it without loving someone. Is it not the same for those who are homosexual?
I’d also like to extend my sympathy for what you endured in your marriage-NO ONE should have to go through that.
H4E, your first marriage sounds awful and my heart goes out to you because of it. Why would God lead you into such an awful marriage? Do you think a loving God would want that for you and want to keep you in it? And then to present you with another marriage and now a third, knowing full well of the “absolute truth” you place in the Bible? You came here quoting scriptures at people, now they are doing the same to you, condemning who you are and who you love (and don’t love) using verses from that same Bible you hold so high. Why? Could it be all for some other purpose, to somehow bring you closer to Him?
Jesus hated hypocracy. He also hated when people used laws and words to limit love and caring (see healing on the Sabbath). But he also hated when people didn’t get his message. How many times was he disgusted with his own students when they just didn’t get what he meant? Those apostles were looking to condemn others while Jesus was looking to accept them all (see His conversing with prostitues and lepers and thieves).
Could it be that you just don’t get it? You are looking at the words, placing rules and regulations on God’s acceptance of people, instead of actually hearing what He is saying? Could it be that your own life was meant to teach you that God’s understanding goes beyond a book, even one that he inspired. That He understands were you have been, who you are and expects one thing from you, love. That the people you encounter here are different from you in creation, but not in purpose. Your life is no different from those you quote scripture at, and neither is that purpose.
Maybe you should let God out of that box you’ve confined him in. Seems to me He’s described himself and His purpose for you. Love God with all your heart and Love one another. That sums it all up. Hell, he’s even described what love is (see 1 Cor. 13, especially verses 5-7, note the word ALL).
I hope that someday you do “get it”.
Bible quotations don’t annoy me. I use them myself with other Christians who are struggling with relevant issues. But it does absolutely no good to use them with people who do not believe in the Bible in the first place. Usually, it puts them off even further. Would people convince you of the error of your ways by quoting from the Koran? I’ll bet not.
I don’t think that you are a hate-filled bigot. But it does strike me that I don’t see much evidence of love in your posts. You seem to me to know the Scriptures but have missed the message.
I’m not angry. Just frustrated.
When I tell you the “truth” as I see it, that is “jumping all over you.” When you tell homosexuals the “truth” as you see it, then you are doing God’ bidding.
I think that some of us are trying to tell you that you don’t seem to recognize self-righteousness as a sin.
I think that some of us are trying to tell you the truth.
I’m not certain what Scripture says that you should go around telling people what their sins are. I think that maybe this thread is showing you how that feels when you are on the receiving end – even though that might not have been the purpose of the OP.
Please see that we have the same privilege. Maybe we should both tell our truths with a little more compassion – if we tell them at all.
I didn’t bring up the subject of hypocrisy. I was asked what I thought and I gave a truthful answer.
Twice you have implied that I have called you a “hate-filled bigot.” Why? I just think that you are really hard on people. It is a trait that I also see in myself.
Yes, I know that you don’t see it.
Me too. Sometimes that can be hell on other people.
In a nutshell, H4E, you cannot say that homosexuals are unforgiven because they continue to sin according to the Bible. when you are doing the exact same thing by not returning to your first husband. Both of these actions are biblical sins, and the fact that you prayed heavily about it has no bearing on the matter, unless you are claiming that God spoke to you and gave you special permission to do this sin. Either admit that you are still sinning, or admit that you have no idea whatsoever what relationship a homosexual has with God and thus she/he has just as much a chance to get to Heaven as you do.
Anything else can only be described as hypocrisy.
You failed the Lord by not staying married to a psychopath? By not changing this man into a shining example of christianity? By getting married in the first place?
I don’t see a ‘failed the Lord’ situation here. More like a ‘the Lord gave me the strength to get the fuck out’ situation.
His4Ever, unlike some in this thread, I have no desire to skewer you for perceived hypocrisy. You have, perhaps inadvertently, revealed some psychic wounds that have clearly not healed and a frighteningly low self-esteem, which certainly makes it easier to understand you.
I think that you might want to get to know Bible-belieiving Christians who don’t belong to your particular church. If you are being taught that you “failed the Lord” by getting out of an abusive marriage, then you are getting some very poor pastoring or counseling from whoever told you this. If there is a God, then He must want you to be happy in His service, not to be miserable. Misery, from what I understand, is the province of the Rebel Angels, not the Almighty. God, through His son, Jesus, offers you joy and freedom, not misery or servitude or abuse. Anybody who tells you differently is lying to you.
(caveat: This is not an endorsement of Christianity or of religion in general. However, while I may be an atheist, I am not an illiterate one, and I know what the Bible jolly well teaches.)
You have, I think, misunderstood your role as a Christian fulfilling the Great Commission. When Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 to teach all the peoples of the world to obey everything He has commanded you, Jesus is talking about the two great commandments He gave in Matthew 22:36-38:
You job is to be a beacon on a hill, the salt of the earth. That does not mean that you have been licensed to tell other people how to live their lives, but to offer your life as an example of God’s ability to heal wounded souls, of His eternal loving kindness.
In any event, if you were here, I’d give you a hug and a footrub and let you know that you are worth loving and worth being cared for, as we all are.
His4Ever, while I still disagree with you vehemently on pretty much everything, the things you’ve revealed in this thread have given the empathy node in my occasionally malfunctioning brain a kick in the ass (if cerebral nodes have asses, that is) and reminded me that even the people whose posts make me see red are human beings, with hurts and joys and pasts that can be pretty rotten. So I apologize for any viciousness I’ve expressed when referring to you in past threads. I can disagree without being cruel, even in the Pit.
And, like gobear, if I actually met you and your past had come up in conversation, I’d probably offer a hug and some cocoa, and a long conversation about rotten men and the things they do. 
And for what it’s worth, the same is probably true of Jersey Diamond and Joe Cool. Everyone’s got dark spots in their past. Every one of us is a flawed human being. Even we godless humanists recognize that!