In your last posts, Lissener, you sound stronger, and that’s a very good thing.
I hope you managed to get some medical treatment for your depression and that your temporary job becomes permanent. It does seem tailor-made for you.
Best wishes, I hope the few positive things that have happened to you (the helpful clients, the job, getting to see all those movies) are a sign that things have turned around for you.
But then, at least you can start climbing knowing you (probably) aren’t going to have to climb any further than where you are now.
Trouble with life, of course, is that, unlike a hole, there’s no telling whether you’re AT rock bottom or not.
I wanted to chime in with the “seek help for depression whatever the cost”-crowd. Could some free clinic of GP prescribe you an anti-depressant? My insurance, for some reason, won’t pay for my generic Prozac, so I had to pay for it myself. It costs me 6 dollars (six meagre dollars. less then a fully topped pizza) for two month’s worth. Can you afford that?
Two things:
Jesus, there are a LOT of self-righteous, sanctimonious pricks in this thread. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I defy any of you to tell me what possessions do or do not enrich my life. And let’s put your possessions under the microscope and have at it, shall we? But I want to wait until you’re sleeping on the floor and suffering from shock, depression and fear. Then I’ll go for the kidney kicks. :rolleyes:
Second thing: I am appalled that I made the “their, they’re there” mistake. I’d off my myself, but must first meditate, find the Lord and divest myself of all my extraneous possessions that aren’t enriching my life.
lissener–self pay does work at the doctor’s office or find a public health clinic. You (IMO, IANAD) need to be medically evaluated and perhaps be out on medication. Look in the phone book or online for community health organizations that might be able to steer you in the right direction. I’m glad things are looking up for you. I know what it is to lose things that matter to you–it’s heartbreaking at the time.
I’ve posted about my problems and gotten unsympathetic responses. Or they seemed unsympathetic to me. Either way, it happened, and it’s happened to others as well. And I lived.
I don’t know how it is that I see people saying “You’ll have to be careful not to repeat this pattern” and you see “Lissener, you asshole, you’ve gotten what you deserve.” I don’t think it’s a kidney kick to tell someone they should be careful in the future. And for the record, I have known shock, depression and fear. I also learned that it was up to me to bring change. What’s the period of mourning before you can give someone constructive advice? Is it ever acceptable?
The ones mixed in with several month’s worth of garbage don’t.
Regards,
Shodan
When you give people advice and they haven’t asked you for it, it doesn’t matter how constructive it is. You’re still pushing something on them. They might be appreciative, and they might not. And your intent doesn’t define the advice.
Whatever your intent, your posts didn’t read to me like constructive advice. They read to me like a very smug poking with a stick. For example:
So, thought experiment. You hit a horrible rough patch in your life and I say, “You know, in 2009 you were on a message board that you didn’t need. You would get a break if you stopped buying things that don’t help your situation.”
Would that really, honestly, strike you as a genuine attempt to help you? Because there’s no way I would ever say that in an effort to be anything but unkind.
Hope life is looking up for you again, lissener. Glad that you manged to find a job. Though you can work from home, I highly suggest going down to the office as often as you could, just to mix around and if not perhaps make new connections where you could land a new job when the year ends.
WTF, jsgoddess. I wouldn’t call that a cruel comment. I’d take it under consideration. I might not take it completely to heart, depending on circumstances, but I’ve heard worse just on this board.
Hey, lissener. I"m glad things are looking up. It sounds like you have a pretty cool job in an industry you want to be in, and maybe you can manage to turn it into something more long-term, or at least use it as a jumping-off point to some other job you’d like also. Making contacts in your preferred industry is never a bad thing.
As for the tie collection, I understand, I really do. I am currently in the process of de-junkifying my house. In our current place, we never got even close to what you might call “hoarding”, but our closets, nooks and crannies, garage, and basement were jam-packed with stuff. Just, stuff. I’m throwing most of it away. The living areas of the house for the most part now look clean, organized, and almost spartan. The garage is about 80% finished. But, one of the things that was in a closet upstairs is my collection of coffee mugs. Unlike your ties, they do not hold significant financial value. They’re just coffee mugs. I have bought one at each place I’ve visited, since I was about 10 years old. There are maybe 40 or 50 of them now. At times they have been buried underneath piles of junk in closets. But if I were to lose them, through breakage or fire or anything else, I would be really upset. I think it’s OK to grieve the loss of valued possessions.
Now, as someone who is retooling her life and habits in order to have a neat and organized living area, I will also say that addressing your habits so that you can avoid living in a “hoarder-y” junk heap again, is definitely something you need to do. Accumulating clutter is a habit that can be hard to break for some people. I wish you luck in this.
And also keep us updated, good or bad.
Best of luck with the new job, lissener. You’re due a break.
I pulled this post to show the lack of sensitivity. I don’t want to bother quoting all of them (and they’re not all from you, btw)
He’s told us they enriched his life. You have no say in how much or if they should have enriched his life or what. You (and others) also have no say or right to judge how he kept his things or if he kept too many things. The OP lost all his clothes–how many of us could deal with that with equanimity? He also lost his job and his home and his treasures.
The period of time varies with the individual–but I would think that most people would be ok with some gentle guidance IF it’s presented with a sympathetic voice. It’s not just you, Rilchiam that I’m speaking of. Most of the advice here sounds condescending and hurtful, and when you’re depressed, you are sensitive to both (hell, even when someone’s not depressed!).
Other thoughts:
It sounds to me like the most critical of you here have never suffered from deep depression. I doubt lissener was always as slobby as he related here. That occurred over time as he sank deeper into his illness. Maybe he did have “too many” material things–who are we to judge? The point is that he is grieving over his changed circumstances and his losses. Coming in here to point out things like he should have backed up his music, trying to appease his landlady was a waste of money, he expected too much of the movers etc is completely non-productive. Barn door and horse. All it does is beat him up a bit more–something he does not need. He’s not retarded–he knows he has messed up and is now living the consequences.
He came looking for an ear, not a tribunal. Pointing out mistakes is a way of distancing yourselves from the problem. Blaming the victim for his troubles is also another classic way to do that. If I could change one thing about the Dope it would be this: the unwillingness to just allow the OP (whoever they may be) to have and express their feelings. Abide with him–that’s all he asked for. If you can’t, then don’t say anything at all.
God damn right, eleanor.
Good luck, lissener. New job sounds promising. I don’t have much in the way of advice, being a pretty miserable fucker myself, but take care.
lissener, I sympathize, I really do. Having been extremely bipolar for most of my life, I understand how bad the down times can be. Getting advise on a message board full of strangers is just a band-aid, though. I am glad to see that things are looking up for you, but I think you still need to get help from a professional. (This might have been brought up before, I didn’t read the whole thread.)
There IS help out there, even if you have no money or insurance, you just have to be persistent about finding it. Most places have county/state agencies that will help. I found help for PTSD and bipolar disorder in Texas, but it was a three-month, frustrating process. I know from experience that the LAST thing one wants to do in the middle of a deep depression is summon up the energy to try to find help, but you have to find that little glimmer within yourself. Hopefully the support you’ve gotten here might just be the little nudge you need.
As for possessions - meh. I used to have a high-stress, VERY high paying job, and spent lots of time and effort and money collecting things that I thought would impress people and make me happy. I ended up losing everything I owned when my meth-addicted boyfriend beat the shit out of me with a baseball bat and left me for dead in our house, which he then set on fire. (a big shout-out and love to all you firefighters out there, thanks for saving lives.) I can’t say that it was a good thing to have happened to me, but I certainly am much happier now. I’m pretty poor, but I have everything I need, and my little house and my little job and my little kitties and lots of friends, I am finally content.
There is help available. Find a glimmer of hope, in whatever you can. You have support here. Make this support you’ve gotten here your impetus to seek help.
It’s the most difficult thing to do, when you’re depressed, but try to see how beautiful the little things in life are. It’s trite, I know, but do stop and smell the roses. Beautiful things are everywhere, but you have to summon up the energy to look for them. Today I walked out of my house and a big fat squirrel came up to me and demanded a treat (the gravediggers here - I live and work in a cemetery - feed them and have made them gluttons.) When I took my walk this evening, I made sure I had carrots in my pocket to feed the deer that live here. These small moments are so much more precious to me than any possession I have ever owned.
Gargh, I’ve gotten maudlin - your story just hit home. Best to you, darlin’ - let us know how things are going.
Love – P
It does seem like Lissener was a bit too attached to his possessions. But for crying out loud, the man did just lose everything, so if it takes a while to get over it I can certainly understand. If he’s still crying next year, then yeah, but this is all new.
Anyway, detachment. Good idea. Reminds me of a story.
A Buddhist monk is sitting in the temple meditating. The master comes by after 10 years and asks him what he has learned.
“Master, after ten years of meditating I have finally learned detachment.”
Whereupon the master punches the monk in the face. Blood everywhere.
“Master…why did you punch me in the face?”
“To detach you from your detachment”.
You may have known depression (the emotion) without having experienced clinical depression – an illness which affects the brain including the centers of judgment. When a person has clinical depression, experiencing the emotion of depression is only one of several symptoms that person may have.
This isn’t to say that you haven’t overcome many obstacles in your own life. But your situation is not the same situation that lissener has had to face anymore than it’s the same as someone who has lost his vision or lost a leg or battled through chemotherapy or lost a spouse.
I admire people of courage wherever I find them.
There is no reason to blame anyone for being human or for having an illness.
There are good things that are happening now. Let it be.
Surely there is some social service agency or clinic where lissener lives that will allow him to get medical treatment for his depression. I equate hoarding with any other obsessive disorder, where folks are trying to fill holes in their psyche. He hoards stuff: Neckties. Music. Pizza boxes. Other people use food. Others exercise compulsively.
IMO, it’s imperative that lissener gets help with his mental issues asap and if that means going to a free clinic, then that’s what it means. It’s easy to find a friend who will lend you his truck or let you sleep on his couch for a few nights. It’s not so easy to find a friend who’s qualified to treat mental illness. And make no mistake about it: living among garbage means that there’s a mental illness.
The other issues – unemployment, homelessness, budget problems – will be taken care of when he’s back to getting a regular paycheck. He certainly seems motivated to get a job, so eventually he’ll solve that problem on his own. But taking care of a mental illness is not a matter of being motivated. People who hoard things aren’t magically cured by having their houses cleaned. There’s still an underlying problem, be it a chemical imbalance or a mental disorder, that he needs help with. And until he seeks that help, the dawn won’t ever come.
FYI - The 10/12 Pearls Before Swine was awesomely dark.