As others said upthread, that’s Saruman’s denigrating view of him. Taking it literally is just dumb. To Saruman, a wizard who focuses on the natural world would be a fool, but that doesn’t mean his a bumbling buffoon in reality.
I didn’t mind the framing device with Ian Holm. That was fine. It was just the actual appearance of Frodo that wasn’t needed. I’ve seen FOTR probably dozens of times, and I’ve never once wonder what Frodo was doing ten minutes before he met up with Gandalf. Some dots don’t need to be connected.
Definitely. And anyway, I suspect Saruman is both correct and not here - particularly with “Radagast the simple”; Yes, Radagast IS sort of “simple” in the sense that he is honest and guileless as portrayed in his only appearance (in Fellowship). And of course that is something Saruman would scorn, but…
Not much a fan of his portrayal in The Hobbit. Too much Peter Jackson, not enough Tolkien.
Likewise, I rather liked the Ian Holm bits; Made me feel right at home. Frodo… I could take or leave. I didn’t really feel like he consumed a meaningful amount of time, and he gave Bilbo someone to talk to instead of being a narrator, but some of the dialogue in there was kinda heavy handed.
When it comes to Epic Tales, I kind of enjoy the slow immersion into the story, and an effort not to rush from scene to scene. The prelude with old Bilbo Frodo fits in well, even if it is not strictly necessary.
I liked the change of the dwarves from useless wanderers into competent adventurers. I would have preferred the Troll Fight to end with the dwarves losing rather than laying down of arms upon Bilbo’s capture, but it’s a damn sight better than them getting trapped one by one like complete idiots.
I definitely could have done without the Indiana Jones scene. In the book, they’re chased by goblins through tunnels, and the goblins hung back to avoid getting picked off one by one. I think that makes more sense than the group taking out dozens upon dozens of goblins in a frantic open chase scene.
I also dislike the change to the fifteen birds in five fir trees. Gandalf asking for help is a solid change and shout out to LOTR. All the other stuff is unnecessary, and it could have been plenty frightening and tense without having trees falling off a giant Cliff of Doom, and Bilbo charging into battle with his +2 Letter Opener.
I just saw it a second time and noticed one other thing that had kind of bothered me before but I didn’t know why: Gollum saying “I wasn’t talking to you.” Gollum never talks to anybody but his Precious. He would have said “We wasn’t talking to it, was we, Precious?”.
He wasn’t exactly a bumbler here, either, despite the eccentricities. And there are a couple more movies coming in which this point may be driven more clearly.
I don’t recall that line in the movie, but it would depend on which of his personalities was speaking. His Smeagol guise (wide eyed, childlike) would speak directly to people instead of his Precious. The Gollum personality (squint eyed, pinched face) would talk to his Precious as you said. Both personalities were on vivid display during the riddle scene.
In LotR (the book), I remember it specifically said that after joining up with Frodo and Sam, Gollum started addressing them directly at times instead of always addressing his Precious… his “Smeagol” side coming out. So I expected it there. In the Hobbit (the book), he never addressed Bilbo directly as I recall. At that point, Gollum had been alone with his Precious for a very long time; it’s possible that the conversation with Bilbo was his first in hundreds of years. I don’t think of him as capable of addressing anyone else directly at that point… he was one F.U.'ed dude.
But in LOTR (the books at least), even his Smeagol guise would refer to himself and everyone else in the third person, not the first & second person. But yes, Smeagol talked directly to others, whereas Gollum just narrated his life back to himself to hold a conversation.
Like:
“Smeagol will help the Master! Smeagol knows a secret way over the mountains.”
and
"Smeagol must take what’s given to him. Master Samwise gave Smeagol the name sneak. Always kind. Always wise.
“It’s a lie!” hissed Gollum… “He lied on me, yes he did. I did escape, all by my poor self. Indeed I was told to seek for the Precious; and I have searched and searched, of course I have. But not for the Black One. The Precious was ours, it was mine I tell you. I did escape.”
from “The Black Gate is Closed”, book IV chapter III.
Also “…when I was young before the Precious came” and “I tried once; but you cannot reach [the Dead in the marshes]”
and
“I’ve used eyes and feet and nose since then. I know other ways.”
(both from “The Passage of the Marshes”, book IV chapter II.
It’s rare, but not unknown, especially early in their association when “Smeagol” appears quite often in preference to “Gollum”.
Superficially, yes. There is, however, a great deal more to him than that surface; he is as much a Maia as any of the other wizards. In that context, it might make more sense to think of his physical body as something like a suit of work clothes; he doesn’t pay much attention to its condition as long as he can get things done. Note that Saruman–who we know has become too invested in his place in Middle-Earth–is portrayed as well groomed.
You can also see the influence of the Valar with whom they were originally aligned (at least, according to Unfinished Tales). Saruman was chosen by Aulë, the Smith. Radagast, on the other hand, was sent by Yavanna, Queen of the Earth, who is responsible for growing things.
Aulë’s maiar are troublemakers. Sauron was Aulë’s originally, too. Which kind of fits into Tolkien’s feelings about technology and “progress”, actually.
Thinking about it, Aulë was the only Vala other than Melkor to disobey Iluvatar, too. His creation of the dwarves prior to the awakening of the elves was a borderline mortal sin, and the mitigating circumstance of his going to Iluvatar about it was only done because he was frustrated in his attempts to truly bring them to life.
The Maia always seemed to me to represent a continuum of ambition - or lust for power. Sauron being utterly consumed by it, Saruman quite interested and drawn to it, Gandalf attracted by it but resisting, and Radagast completely untouched by and uninterested in it. Radagast represents the opposite of ambition: The complete devotion of self to the service of others, and to even the smallest of them.
. . . so it doesn’t surprise me that a bunch of Hollywood muckity-mucks felt the need to make him dirty and ridculous.
Well, I gave in and saw it when my daughter took me for my 60th birthday present. It’s bloated, repetitive, & adds unnecessary non-Tolkien stuff. I don’t think it would draw in a non-fan.
I still sat there enchanted with a smile on my face, happy to be back in Middle Earth. It does not compare in quality to Jackson’s LOTR, but still had many pluses - besides the obvious great set/art design and music, I thought the casting was excellent. In addition to Bilbo, all the dwarves came to life, where before they mostly just names. I liked the portrayal of Elrond better this time around, & the tension between elves & dwarves worked well. The Gollum riddles in the dark scene was excellent, just perfection. When will Andy Serkis get his Oscar, anyway?
I found this…kinda ridiculous. The dwarves are supposed to be…well, if not broke, certainly coming off a period of hardship. Are we supposed to believe that they ate only the finest mutton and sausages while they were wandering homeless through the wild?
I thought it was another callback to Bored of the Rings - (paraphrasing from memory) “Like most peoples with no visible means of support, the Elves lived frugally. Frito and Spam were dismayed to be served a plateful of bark, walnut shells, and dirt.”
But they haven’t been - for the past howevermany years they’ve had a respectable enough dwelling over in the Blue Mountains (Eryd Luin) over by the West coast, and Thorin remarks at Bilbo’s house party that they are not doing so badly and “have a bit put by”, in the shape of a handsome gold chain around his neck. They have had to work at it, even coal-mining from time to time when they couldn’t get smith-work, but a hundred years of being an expert craftsman and careful with your money adds up over time. It’s just that it’s no compensation for the huge wealth and prestige that went with being the King Under the Mountain.
