Holocaust revisionism

Great Debates
41

Well, you’re half-right. He was polite.

After how many people explained this to you and pointed out that you were acting somewhat like a jerk?

What he meant is obvious to anybody who can comprehend simple English. You apparently have a problem in this area. Perhaps you should try an adult learning facility for help. Maybe he’ll come back and reply, maybe he’ll realize that there isn’t any point. That’s up to him, not me.

Because I can read and understand and don’t get a hard-on from Jew baiting like you do.

Good thing, 'cus you have one person lying for you (that would be, well, you) and Dex has 0 people lying for him. If it were a contest, you’d win.

There’s no denying that. You have no friends and your point of view is certainly unique. Thank goodness.

**
[/QUOTE]

42

Guys, guys…

There’s no point in trying to correct John John. If he cannot clearly comprehend CK’s original post, which was quite clear to me, then what makes you think Johnny will comprehend your corrections?

CK said:

I include that quote to show that I comprehend what was written. I have no hope of Johnny comprehending it, though.

>< DARWIN >
__L___L

43

Getting back to the OP:

Filmmaker Errol Morris (The Thin, Blue Line, A Brief History of Time) has a new film entitled Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter Jr.. Leuchter is the inventor of the modern electric chair. He is also a Holocaust denier. The film is described here: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0192335 and here is a story about it from the New Times in Los Angeles: www.newtimesla.com/issues/1999-12-23/feature2.html

Now, after you’ve read that, go here: www.newtimesla.com/feedback/011300.html and scroll down till you see a letter to the editor entitled “HOLOCAUST DENIERS AREN’T THAT BAD*”, written by someone who wanted to remain anonymous. This person does not deny the Nazis were evil. S/he does not deny that millions of Jews and others were imprisoned and made into slaves and died. It’s how they died that they question:

The letter writer claims this was found by a forensic examination commissioned by the Auschwitz State Museum and conducted by the Institute of Forensic Research in Krakow. The writer also claims that a second study was made by German chemist Germar Rudolf and that the Max Planck Institute could find no factual errors in his report.

So how did six million Jews and others die? The letter writer claims they died because of harsh mistreatment, but that most died in the last year of the war, 1945, after Germany’s infrastructure was destroyed by the Allies, dying of thirst, hunger and disease.

I think the letter writer is full of it, but I can’t say for certain at this time. More info is appreciated. For example, how much Zyklon B was used? Wouldn’t you need more of it if you were trying to kill humans instead of lice? How big were the delousing chambers? Big enough to hold many people or just a few? Did anyone autopsy the victims to determine the cause of death? Or were they buried first?

John John, do you think the Holocaust happened? I think it did and will continue to believe so unless and until someone can give me a VERY good reason why I shouldn’t.

>< DARWIN >
__L___L

44

I don’t want to make this look like an attack at Dext, just as I did not intend my prior post to be an attack. But I do think his wording was careless, and I meant to point out how.

We can all agree that in no way did he state all Anglo-Saxon Protestants were racists and/or Holocaust deniers. And I am sure that what he meant was that the mentality which leads to Holocaust denial is analagous to, or of the same type as, the mentality which leads some Anglo-Saxon Protestants to hold bigoted views of their own supremacy. Simply inserting something as basic as “…it is the same [kind of] racist mindset…” would have made the statement unobjectionable.

That does not change the fact that the actual statement he made was that the mentality was identical with that holding to a belief in Anglo-Saxon Protestant supremacy.

I’m confident Dext would not have meant to make such an easily disprovable statement, but as tempting as it may be to pillory those pointing it out, nevertheless his actual words do make that statement.

Finally, to those who will want to question my reading comprehension, you may well be right- we are always the worst judges of our own capabilities. But if you are correct, then the Educational Testing Service has grossly, consistently and unconscionably duping me over the decades.

45

you will note I said reading comprehension, not writing ability :frowning:
Please insert “been” into the above

46

jab1, here is a discussion of Leuchter, the Kracow forensics, and a few others:
http://www2.ca.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/forensic.html

Tom~

47

Jan1

I have no question in my mind about it. There is absolutely no way a person could deny it. The question of whether it was 4.5 million, 5 million or 6 million is overshadowed by the horror of it.

You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin

48

nebuli

This denial of our reading comprehension reminds me of the cheating husband that is caught by his wife with another woman in bed and he says to her “are you going to believe what I’m telling you, or what your eyes see?”

We are now witnessing spin and damage control. Are we going to believe what ckdexhavn’s words ACTUALLY SAID, or what his stooges tell us they said, and what HE meant by them. I am a college graduate and I’m smart enough to figure out what HIS words said. I know what those words said, I don’t know if HE meant them, AND NEITHER DO ANY OF YOU.

You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin

49

David Bloomberg

That must be horrible.

David B.

If it is so clear, David, why are YOU struggling so much?

You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin

50

I rarely read threads in Great Debates at all, and I almost never read threads about “Holocaust revisionism” because I don’t want to give those people a forum. You yourself, John John, said something to that effect in your first post here.

I differ from you slightly, because I usually answer them once. There are some people who don’t really know, and if they see Holocaust deniers go unanswered, they may be misled. So I post once, and once only.

Please, don’t draw conclusions from the fact that I rarely read this board.

Thank you, David, for letting me know about these severe distortions of what I said.

For the rest of you, after you’ve twisted my words and I don’t respond, why don’t you do me the courtesy of an email to let me know that you have posted a challenge to me?

Now, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I was citing EXAMPLES of racists. I gave the example of Syria, I gave the example of anti-black folks. I gave the example of the “racist mindset that denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either.” The latter is probably the example that is most accessible to most Americans who don’t know a lot of Syrian dictators.

PLEASE NOTE: I certainly never said nor implied that “all WASPS are racists”, which seems to be the way you’re reading my statement. I never even said that all Holocaust deniers are WASPS (didn’t my first sentences about Syria give you a clue?)

Saying that ducks are an example of something with feathers IN NO WAY implies that everything with feathers is a duck. And argument by example is a classic way to make a point.

Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

51

Geez

I thought it was just a relatively simple quest for an opinion. Not a personal flame.

Sorry Dext.

Lord Flasheart to Nursie: I like it firm and fruity. Am I glad to see you
or did I just put a canoe in my pocket?

Lord Flasheart: She’s got a tongue like an electric eel and she likes the
taste of a man’s tonsils.

52

Yes, I did say that. You and I agree that to give the deniers a forum is not a wise move, although it is tempting to try to turn them around and see what makes them tick, or tock.

ck

The thing is, I HAVE NEVER MET A HOLOCAUST DENIER, EVER. I sometimes think it’s a joke they are pulling. A very bad one. It’s like still believing the earth is flat, or the moon is made of cheese.

ck

OK, I won’t, but David might. :slight_smile:

ck

Damn it! I thought of that, but decided against it, figuring, one of your friends might have done it already. Sorry, I should have, since I was the one of those that questioned your badly worded comment, which, thankfully, is what it seems to have been.

CK, it was badly worded.

I’m very glad you cleared this mess up, CK. I would find it hard to believe that you held those views. I’m glad you do not. As a point of interest, I am neither Anglo Saxon or Protestant, I just don’t like to see that type of bigotry, which we know now was NOT your intent or meaning, displayed against anyone, contrary to what some assholes might think.

Incidently, tom mentioned that I might have a history with you, or a grudge, those are figments of his overactive, immature mind. I never had a heated exchange with you or even an impolite exchange. I do not even know you.

CK, would you admit, independent of consensus, that your choice of comparison and wording was unfortunate? For WASP’s anyway :slight_smile: Thanks for your reply and clarification.

You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin

53

Some of the comments that are in bold are my replies to CK. Hope that is clear.

54

I said, in response to understanding the mindset of Holocaust deniers: << It’s very simple – it’s the racist mindset that denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either. >>

I suppose it would have been better worded if I had said: << It’s very simple – it’s the same as, for example, the racist mindset that denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either.>>

I thought my statement was clear from the fact that I started talking about Syrian Holocaust-deniers, who miss being “WASP” on about every cateogry. As I said in my response yesterday, I was using an example of the Holocaust-denier mindset that I thought Americans are fairly familiar with.

And I have met such people, and there’s is nothing funny about them. I have only met the American versions of these creatures. They have a hidden agenda. The ones I have met were of German heritage, and don’t want to admit that “their people” could have behaved so badly, so they deny. And usually, if you can get them to talk about other topics, you will hear them say that blacks, Jews, Asians, etc are inferior races. Once you get to that level, you know EXACTLY what you’re dealing with.

Sometimes they challenge the numbers, it wasn’t six million, it was only 5.5 million. Then they claim the deaths were due to malaria or something. Total bullshit. If that were so, you’d have expected that here and there a guard or some of the nearby townspeople might have caught the disease too? Don’t you think that Adolf Eichmann and the others would have mentioned that at their trials?

Then they say that the shower-gas chambers were constructed later by nasty people who wanted to discredit the fun-loving Germans of the 1940s. Typical of the conspiracy nuts, any evidence (no matter how large, public, and evident) is simply manufactured by the great Conspiracy (which usually involves Jews, of course.) It’s all tied to the Jews-control-the-governments-and-banks syndrome.

But they never come out and SAY those things, which would unmask them. Instead, hide it under pseudo-historic gobbledygook and outright lies.

Look, here’s the ultimate bottom line: most of the evidence of the Holocaust comes from the Nazis themselves, not from the outside. They kept meticulous records, in their own handwriting. They took photographs and newreel footage. Enough of them were PROUD of what they were doing, that the evidence is clear. There’s nothing circumstantial about it. There are eyewitness accounts, not just from the victims, but from the murderers. Unfortunately, as time passes, there are fewer eyewitnesses left to tell their stories, and so these racist revisionists can spread their deceits.

Faugh.

55

Sorry, I should have added a thank you to all the folks like Tom and Spiritus and everyone who understood what I said, and who know that my biases are directed at things like Dutch insurance companies and health-care frauds. Don’t get me started.

56

ckdexthavn

Indeed.

57

Know, that that is cleared up.

John John, are you saying that anyone who who was able to understand what Dex said the first time is a stooge? That was the implication.

58

“Now” not “know”!

59

Ursa

No. Anyone who saw those words as meaning anything other than the denotation of those words would be guilty of anemic comprehension, faulty vocabulary, or stoogery. :slight_smile:

You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin

60

Dext,

I sincerely apologize for my initial post. Upon re-reading it I saw that it sounded too harsh, and I hope my second post made it clear that I did not think you actually meant what the words seemed to say literally. Neither did I mean to be nitpicking over mere grammar, although I guess that may be what I did. The issue about the statement had been raised already and I was commenting on what I thought was a poor choice of words. I did not mean for it to be a personal attack or challenge to you.

Again, I’m sorry if it seemed otherwise,
nebuli