Home insurance coverage guarantee

Louisiana just changed their law to give home insurance companies the right to drop coverage of residents in the state. Previously there was a state law that said if you have been a policyholder for more than three years the insurance company could not cancel your policy. Note they could raise your rates and if they stopped doing business in the state obviously you no longer had coverage. But as long as you paid your premiums and kept to the terms of the policy, they could not cancel your policy as long as they wanted to do business in the state. I just learned that this is apparently unique in the US/world. I find that hard to believe, but have been assured it is the case.

Does anyone here on the Dope know of an example where a policy holder in good standing is guaranteed renewal of a homeowner policy?

To reiterate, the new law means insurance companies can drop people in Louisiana if they choose to.

I cannot imagine why there would ever be a guarantee of renewal.

But, the alternative is just to raise the price of the policy until it is something the insurance company is willing to do which seemed legal from what you wrote. Of course, the price might be ridiculous and not worth doing but there if you wanted it.

I had a former boss who would get rid of annoying clients like that. He’d just raise rates on them for our service. He figured if they were willing to pay that we were willing to put up with their bullshit. Otherwise, they’d leave which was fine too. Win/win in his view.

My insurance company sent out an inspector a few years ago. I was told that I had to replace my 15 year old water heater or they would decline to renew me.

Have you ever seen the Mythbuster’s episode where they make a water heater fail? It rockets out of the top of the house. To be fair, they had to work hard to make it fail.

I have seen that episode. They do like their ballistic gel mannequins.

I think the insurance company was more worried about flooding since we have a finished basement.

just goes to show how what one’s environment influences ones outlook. I am shocked that insurance companies can do that. :slight_smile:

To me, it is like life insurance. One buys insurance with the expectation of it being there for your entire life. If life insurance companies collected premiums while their customers were young, then dropped them as they aged, the product would not be worth much.

I see the advantage to the insurance company, they can sell policies while conditions are good, then drop people who might be higher risk. It just doesn’t seem fair, but that is just me.

Similarly, this past winter, my insurance company decided that they no longer liked a tree on my property (it’d grown to the point that some limbs were over the house). They informed me that they would not renew my coverage unless I had the tree removed.

My understanding, from a conversation with my insurance agent, is that the insurance companies have started to look much more closely at risk factors, and will refuse to cover (or renew) if they don’t like something about a house’s condition. Roof age and type is another big one: I learned from my agent that not only are they likely to demand that I have a new roof put on my home in the next few years, but that the next roof must use architectural shingles, rather than the traditional three-tab asphalt singles.

To me saying this is akin to making you insure me. Why would that ever be the case? Even if you insured me yesterday that is no reason to insist you insure me tomorrow.

After one of the particularly bad California fire seasons, I think it was 2018, my home insurance company sent me a letter saying they would not renew my policy unless I removed a bunch of trees and other vegetation from my property. I removed several trees that were close to the house. They reexamined it and said what I had done was not sufficient. What they wanted essentially entailed removing every single tree and bush from my property. I canceled and went with another (somewhat more expensive) company. I was annoyed but certainly didn’t feel that I had any right to demand that they insure me. They have the right to insure whom they want based on their risk assessment, just as I have the right to choose the insurance company that I want.

Just to be clear, the issue is canceling the policy, not changing the rates or terms. Insurance companies have always been able to change rates and terms of their policies-usually with state insurance board oversight but not always. My surprise is that an insurance company can decide to just cancel policies without giving the policy holder any option. I understand that in some places that has always been possible, but I am surprised to find out how unusual protections from arbitrary cancelations are.

And as I said, the point is moot. The Louisiana legislature recently passed a law removing the protection from residents here and to drive home the point also removed state oversight of rates.

You are correct, but to me a similar case would be for the power company to provide service to my house when I built the house then one day deciding to cut off service just because they want to. I made an investment, in this case a house, predicated on being able to live in the house. Without utilities or insurance I am unable to live there. Just because I built the home doesn’t mean I am guaranteed services, I get that, but it certainly creates a lot of uncertainty for the future.

It’s a little different, for this reason: electricity is, in effect, a must-have. You are able to live in a house without homeowner’s insurance.

If you have a mortgage, and your preferred homeowner’s insurance provider decides to cease insuring you, I can tell you, from my own personal experience this past winter, that your mortgage lender will probably arrange to provide you with coverage, though it will be very expensive (probably because they are using an insurer which is willing to cover otherwise-uninsurable homes). In pretty much every case, mortgage lenders are going to make sure that real estate on which they have liens is insured. How expensive that insurance will be, is not their concern.

Even in Florida, which has had a huge problem with insurers leaving the market (because of massive payouts on hurricane damage to homes), they have established a state-run “insurer of last resort” for homeowners who can’t get insurance from a private carrier.

If you own your home outright (i.e., no mortgage), not having insurance doesn’t make the house unlivable – it just means that you’re rolling the dice on not having damage to the home that you can’t pay for yourself.

The comparison with life insurance is wrong. “Whole life insurance” means exactly that they cannot drop you no matter what. Term insurance is totally different and much cheaper. They can drop it any time. Or raise the rate.

Ultimately, we’d all (or at least most of us) would like a world where the necessities like electricity and health care and the near-necessities like insurance and groceries and cars were a) easy to get, b) plentiful, c) cheap, d) reliable with no gotchas, and e) providers were eagerly competing to provide those quality services at low prices.

We’d also all like ponies and an ice cream dispenser in our freezer.


Second point:
Most of us have a “sticky” approach to purchases. Which marketers both hate and exploit. My grocery store has 37 kinds of toothpaste. But I don’t make a fresh decision on which to buy every time I go; instead I reach for the same one I bought last time. Over and over for years until forced to change when that kind is no longer stocked in nearby stores or maybe not even made at all.

Things like banks and insurance are famously extra sticky. Folks want to have to decide once, and want to never have revisit the decision. The products are complicated, difficult to compare, and the benefits rather nebulous. Nobody enjoys shopping for [whatever] insurance. Nobody. It’s a problem that we want to stay fixed.

Historically it was to banks / insurers / toothpaste companies’ advantages to minimize customer churn. Keep up happy enough and collect that revenue for our entire life.


That was then; here comes now …
Insurance is an interesting business. The original idea of course is risk spreading, not risk elimination. e.g. If one in a thousand houses are destined to burn down, better to have 1000 people shoulder one thousandth of the cost of a new house than 999 people pay nothing and the 1000th lose everything.

With the statistical techniques of e.g. 1890, that worked great. Then of course insurance companies got the idea that they could also do risk minimization too. Require big buildings to have fire sprinklers, etc. Insist on cars that had more damage-resistant bumpers. Benign things that increased collective safety while improving their bottom line, and/or if the insurance regulator was thorough or competition was real enough and big enough, also reduced premiums.

Of course with modern Big Data, it’s easy enough to stop treating “All homeowners in Louisiana” as an undifferentiated lump, and instead have the computer assign a risk score to each individual policy holder. Then visit the bad risks and either cancel them, or demand onerous changes to their properties. Such as “clear cut the entire woods on your forested land in fire country.” Or perhaps worse, “Quit driving a jacked-up pickup truck since those are highly correlated with fireworks accidents that burn down houses and also with drunken collisions with your own garage”. Correlations are real; causation perhaps a different thing.

Genetic testing for health insurance is a similar quagmire. The industry would love to gen-test everyone and charge (or deny coverage) accordingly. They’d also love to test for tobacco, alcohol, and drug consumption about once a month and charge accordingly for that too.

As a social / governmental matter we’re still trying to live in the world before customers could practically be differentiated. While the insurers can now practically differentiate and therefore customize their charges (some might say “discriminate”, but that opens a larger debate) to the individual risks being individually run.

Only regulation stands in their way, and if the regs are swept away in an ideological frenzy, insurance will change from a risk-pooling system into one that really amounts mostly to pre-paying into a non-interest bearing unregulated account an amount exceeding your lifetime future expenditures on [whatever].

By and large, nations don’t get the big businesses they deserve. They get the big businesses they regulate.

They most certainly cannot drop you from coverage unless you fail to pay premiums. They can only raise rates if you are trying to renew.

State Farm in my area (Santa Barbara) is not taking any new clients for home owners. Existing clients are allowed to remain, unless they aren’t. Several percent of the homes are being dropped because they are too close to a fire risk area. Everyone must have insurance available to them and I think that the State steps in and offers some kind of insurance if one can’t get it elsewhere.

My mom’s insurance company in San Diego. They flew a drone over the neighborhood. They told her that she had to replace the roof or they would drop her.

recently retired actuary here. The first company I worked for completely dropped homeowners and personal auto insurance, except for NY and FL, because both those states had strict rules about how many policies they could non-renew. Of course, they could have stopped writing insurance altogether (which they did a few years later – not a healthy company) but they wanted to continue writing commercial insurance in those states, so they had to follow the rules for personal lines.

Life insurance is considered a long-term product. Home insurance is considered a short-term product. Many life insurance contracts say in the contract that they cover you for your whole life, or for some other lengthy period of time. The typical home insurance policy is written for 12 months, or sometimes for 6 months.

There are a bunch of regulatory differences between short and long term products. The assumption when writing a long-term product is that you can charge more for the young healthy person to keep the rates lower when they are old and sick, for instance, and that you need to salt away that pre-paid premium and earn interest on it. Whereas the assumptions for a home insurance policy is that this year’s premiums will pay for this year’s losses.

Digression about health insurance

One of the reasons our health insurance is messed up is that it’s written as short-term insurance, but health is kinda like life, and gets riskier as we age. If you have a home accident and the roofs burns down, you can replace the rood and the house is just as sound as it was before the accident. If you have a health “accident” and you develop diabetes or cancer, you can’t “fix” that, you will forever have a higher risk.

No, they generally can’t cancel a policy. But if you read the policy, it was probably written for one year. They have the option to non-renew at the end of the policy term. They can’t change the terms or rates during the existing policy period, either.

Home insurance costs are skyrocketing, especially in places prone to flooding and wild fires. So I expect home insurance to be in the news, and to piss people off, for a few more years at least.

As one ages, one’s need for life insurance diminishes. If you have children, they reach adulthood and self-sufficiency. Your investments and retirement savings grow while your mortgage balance decreases. So if you’re married but approaching or in retirement, your spouse may be able to rely on Social Security, pensions and retirement savings.