Well, zev, Orion seems to be only retired from forming coherent thoughts, or accepting fact.
I also doubt that he’s 26, but waddaya gonna do?
Waste
Flick Lives!
Yes it’s that time again, time to translate the ramblings of a troll. Here we go…
“I think that many of your questions are stupid,”
" I don’t understand what you have been saying"
“and I think that you know that you hav lost my friend.”
“Since I don’t understand what has been said, I must be right.”
You seems to compare thing that can’t be compared."
“Your comparisons seem to invalidate my points. Stop doing that.”
“I didn’t say that Americas treatment in Vietnam was OK.”
I am too incompetent to read my own posts."
“Once again about AIDS.”
“Maybe if I repeat this often enough, the bullshit fairy will make it be true.”
"I will ask you a question: Do you know any gays that have died of Aids. I bet you do, and not just one either, Right. "
“Since repeating my statements doesn’t seem to be convincing, how about anecdotal evidence?”
“I ask you this because you said you where a gay.”
“Gay people know more than me.”
“About that hetrosexuels are spreading it now: It’s a lie. Straight men and women are spreading it -yes, but not like the gays.”
“Straight people have sex differently from gay people”
"You people are using this Aids plague to justify a perverter lifestyle. "
“AIDS justifies the gay lifestyle.”
(no, I don’t know what he meant by this.)
“You people does the same about adopting. You people say that it’s better that gays take care of children instead of them staying in a children’s home.”
“I think large impersonal institutions raise children better than loving parents.”
“You people use this for all it’s worth, you will stop at nothing to get a child.”
“I’m afraid that I might get kidnapped by a rabid bunch of gay people who want to raise me as their own child. please help me.”
“You people are sick and you only care about you’re selves.”
“You people are sick. you don’t automatically accept what I say as gospel truth.”
“homosexuality should be illegal”
“Where is that bullshit fairy anyway. I’ve been waiting. where is it?”
There we go, one troll’s post, neatly translated for you. Have a nice day.
Lib:
I understand.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
::whispering:: Shh, Spiritus! I’m trying to get Lib away from the obscure references!
This board is not very representative for “the ordinary Joe”.
People “out there” are more divided about this than the ones on this board are.
Well, I’m pretty divided.
I’ve noticed that my left side and my right side are nearly (though not perfectly) mirror images. Plus, I struggle daily with my placenta fetish.
Oh, no! This board is not a median sample of humanity (or did you want modal, Starboy).
I knew there was a reason I liked coming here.
LOL, Lib – I always knew you were a fetishist at heart.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
I think that gays try what they can just to marry, adopt etc.
They don’t have the ability to think thoughts like “Maybe this is wrong”.
The use all kinds of science to back up they’re way of lives and things they wanna do.
They try to compare thing that can’t be compared just so that they can reach their demented goals.
That’s my opinion.
Paraphrased a bit from Starboy:
Orion, will you at least admit that your opinion is not in any way based in fact? Pretty please?
I don’t give a rat’s ass what opinions you hold. But if they’re solely personal biases, please have the courage to admit it.
-andros-
Coventry minus 10 . . . 9 . . . 8 . . .
is it just me, or does " doin the clown drag " sound like a song I’d like to hear.
also:
Wish I’d said that. How can you argue?
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Is there any way you can make someone change their UserName if it’s too long?
><DARWIN>
_L___L
Well, I’m in trouble now. ORION states:
Not exactly. I don’t like fags and I have mixed feelings about lesbians – obviously because they’re female. Now, a real, hefty, mouthy butch dyke pisses me off in all sorts of ways, father than any male homosexual can.
No matter what my feelings are, I believe that their condition is genetic and, as such, most cannot make any other choice in their sexuality. Very, very few efforts by psychiatrists have ‘converted’ homosexuals to the normal, and I suspect that most of those successes were because the person chose homosexuality due to some psychosis. (It happens.) Because their condition is genetic, I do not have the ** right to deny them the rights and social freedoms that I enjoy, nor to restrict them in any way.** They contribute to society just as well as any other segment of it, plus, one does not have to be concerned much about them passing their genes on.
I liked Rock Hudson, was alarmed when this Macho Man turned out to be gay, but I still considered his works wonderful and still enjoy watching them. I know that in history several predominate figures were gay – both men and women. Plus several absolutely fantastic writers and philosophers have been gay.
I find no reason to restrict the freedoms or activities of any lesbian or homosexual person.
Orion said:
Yes, it’s soooo clear that we’ve been through over 150 messages and you still haven’t been able to clearly state your point or make a case.
So let’s try a direct question:
Why is it wrong for two men to have sex with each other?
Please answer the question (don’t ignore it like almost all of the other points I’ve made to you so far in this thread).
=====
Gaudere: I almost woke the kids laughing at your “lucky” message. 
How do you feel about lesbians? They’re homosexual, only they’re women and many of them are very pretty, desirable women and many of these women are bisexual. Men like bisexual women quite a bit and you would be amazed at how many normal men have fantasies about ‘doing’ a couple of pretty women who are doing each other.
How about you? Would you have a problem doing a couple of pretty, seductive women who like doing each other if they wanted you to join in? Ever thought about it? Sure you have. That’s a common dream among men. For a man to do two women who like doing each other, the women have to be bisexual, which is homosexual.
Most men dislike male homosexuals because most men are naturally repelled by the sight of another nude man – which is natural. Plus, it is threatening to most guys to think that another, big hairy guy might want to shove a penis up his butt. Most men don’t like being looked on as a sexual object by another man because it is considered something like being conquered.
Women homosexuals are more accepted by men than male homosexuals are. Lesbians are more accepted by women than male homosexuals are. There are various degrees to homosexuality and certain roles can be adopted. In adult bars, guys go wild over two women caressing and cuddling each other but women do not respond the same to two men doing something similar.
Male homosexuals often are more ‘rough’ or experimental in sex, more frequently leaning towards aggressive acts of mutual satisfaction and often more flamboyant than female homosexuals are. (Leather, ‘butch’ roles, sexual toys, bondage, exaggerated clothing, exaggerated make up and so on.) Not all, of course, but many.
Many normal men are homophobic, seeing male to male homosexuality as ‘dirty’ and twisted. Most men even find bisexuality among other men as one step below ‘queerdom’ but find it much more acceptable and even often desirable among females – especially if the lesbians stay very feminine in look and attitude.
That’s OK. Get a lesbian who is very male in attitude, look and dress and their opinion turns hostile because then they see another ‘male.’ Another male becomes a threat, even if the male is female.
Transsexuals are much more accepted once they have the operations and, in some cases, even desired sexually. It seems that many men have little problem with poking another person who no longer has the male equipment but used to be male.
Sex can get so confusing for some people when they face gender bending. Transvestites in full costume are often more accepted because they can look and act female and quite a few ‘normal’ men find themselves actually responding sexually to them, which confuses them even more because they know the woman is a guy, and as a guy, they should not be responding to another guy, but the guy looks so much like a girl that maybe it might be fun to ‘poke’ them, but that would be homosexual and they are not homosexual and then they get all messed up in their feelings and get pissed.
In actuality, they are simply responding to the cues nature designed them to respond to that the other has not only adopted but exaggerated. Many transvestites tend to ‘exaggerate’ the feminine look, which normal guys respond to. (The pronounced make up, the colorful dress, lots of body language and seductive attitude.) They deliberately increase the cues men find alluring and men respond.
That is one reason why there are so many more female impersonators in show business than male impersonators and why they are more accepted in general. It is also obvious that a good looking homosexual in drag is much more accepted than one who looks ‘too’ male and is somewhat ugly.
Men virtually always see other men as a threat. Evolution made them that way, so a male/female is a threat to a normal man’s very sexuality because on one hand he is sexually interested and on the other, threatened and he automatically (subconsciously) recalls the ‘brutal’ violence men can achieve. (School yard fights, sports aggression, crude sexual jokes, manly attitude and so on.) Combine that with the usual tendency of men to ‘poke anything that has a hole in it and holds still’ and the response from a normal man can get violent.
Look at guys at sports events and how they react. Guys are almost always the ones who throw things at the players and guys are always the ones who start the riot at the soccer field, guys are always the ones in the locker room who make crude sexual jokes at less ‘manly’ companions and sex is used to dominate. ( I don’t know many women who go around waving their private parts at other women as a sign of superiority but I know guys who do. – The ol’ crotch grab for one.)
So, many normal men see a homosexual man as one who might like to ‘poke’ them and since that is the female role and ‘submissive,’ possibly considering of doing the ‘act’ to them would be considered a form of dominance and most men, naturally, do not like being dominated. They LIKE to dominate, but not to have it done to them. (Excluding the usual handful of perverts and nuts.)
This creates a hostility in many men for the homosexual man, which bypasses the pretty, feminine lesbian, but which also targets the very ‘macho’ dyke lesbian and which changes to curious acceptance of the transvestite or transsexual – so long as they look very female.
Confusing your poor, over heated little brain, little man?
Well, basically, since the majority of the homosexuals and lesbians certainly did not deliberately choose to become members of probably the most hated segment of society world wide, I would think that it is out of their control. They have enough problems in trying to fit in to today’s world as it is, so why the hell add to them by considering them carriers of some form of exclusive plague?
I’ve met some ‘normal’ men who I consider more of a threat to anyone human than a homosexual ever can be and some men who have the attitude and instincts of gorillas – no – scratch that. Gorillas often have BETTER attitudes than these guys.
Besides I don’t often find homosexuals so quick to talk down about women – like normal guys do. (Just how many rotten ways do you guys have to describe the female sexual organs? Stench trench, fish pit, bloody Mary, gash, slit, (my favorite here – ) SNATCH). Normal guys like to dream up things to pull on other guys like pissing in their unattended beer and thinking its funny, farting in someone’s face and bragging about it, seeing who can lay the biggest turd, and offering to poke their penises in other guys mouths or butts.
Funny, homosexual guys often do not go in for that form of ‘humor’ publicly. How many ‘normal’ guys have sex with a girl and then go tell the world about how she ‘stank down there,’ was ‘big enough to drive a truck in,’ how she didn’t want it up her butt but he shoved it up there anyhow and wiped the ‘fudge’ off on her ass?
Hmmmm?
Normal seems to have it’s problems also. Leave the homosexuals alone because I also believe that they don’t have a choice about their sexuality. Why ostracize someone who cannot change what they are?
‘I like me but I sure as shit aint so positive about you.’
It is impossible to respond to Orion point by point, as he has neither the mindset to answer a list of arguments, nor the ability to use the “respond” feature very well. However, he did say:
From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (www.cdc.org):
What this means, Orion, is that although gay white men are still the largest number of HIV/AIDS cases, the rate of infection is decreasing, whereas the rate of infection are increasing among non-whites, drug users and heterosexuals.
By your logic, all non-whites, drugs users and heterosexuals should be put in jail for proliferating the spread of AIDS.
What about a gay couple that is in a long-term, committed, monogamous relationship? Should they still be “illegal?” (Good Lord, I wrote that sentence and the name “Mussolini” came to mind - he’s a fascist!)
And do you think all laws should be based on Christian doctrine?
Orion asked me:
No, I do not know anyone personally who has died from AIDS. I did, however, have an ex-boyfriend and good friend who was beaten, robbed and murdered, his body thrown down a river embankment and left to rot for 6 months until they found him - just for being gay. So, you [Deleted by Gaudere (if you think it’s going to be censored, don’t post it, please)]
{My apologies to our fair moderator - edit it as you see fit.}
Oh, and by the way, just because I’m gay I should automatically know someone who died of AIDS? Maybe you should try asking the heterosexuals here - I’m sure more than one has been known someone who has passed away. AIDS is not a gay disease.
Why does this bother you? And why do two men getting married bother you?
Do you believe homosexuality is a choice or that it is genetic?
Nu Vo Da Da, now I’m in love with you, too - but don’t tell Lib or Poly…
THANK YOU!
Weirddave wrote:
I have such a way with words, don’t I?
Just to play Devil’s advocate, if it were a choice, would your view differ?
You go, NightGirl! Like Sentinel, I will say you have a few things just a tad skewed, but overall I’m impressed.
(In fact, I think I’m going to start another thread - “Homosexuality 101: Everything you always wanted to know about homosexuality but were afraid to ask.” No religion, no civiil rights, no flaming, only honest questions, personal insight and accurate cites.
Oh, and as far as Orion’s views on lesbians, go look in MPSIMS - two women is his #1 fantasy.
Esprix
Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.
[Note: This message has been edited by Gaudere]
For the record, Esprix, you and Otto are not the only other gays out here in Straight Dope world. I for one am gay and very open about it and know several others out there.
Anyway, I don’t think Orion*Orion is really worthy of a real debate. His arguments are incredibly circular and he is not willing to at least refute the evidence which has been given to him. I supplied this thread with several links to the Center for Disease Control (for Orion, it is one of the largest, most comprehensive medical powerhouse in the United States) specifically on AIDS/HIV cases occuring within the United States. Perhaps my verbage was too complicated for him to understand, but those links provide all the necessary information needed to form at least a slightly informed opinion.
It is all well and fun to have fun with the trolls. But this is akin to having an argument with the Adam (ARG220) of before. In other words, he has a preconceived opinion that is highly offensive to most sane people and will not even think about the issue at hand even though there is more than a significant amount of information from neutral sources that are in exact opposition of the said statements. I haven’t really seen any of Adam’s recent posts to know if he really changed, but I assume he did since when he left it was because "God doesn’t want me (Adam) here. By his return, I assume God will allow him to become a more caring and understanding person. I only say this because Orion’s arguments (used in the loosest sense of the word)all basically have the same structure that Adam’s originally have. (For the newbies out there…Go to the Great Debates of about 4-6 months ago, or so, and look for Arg’s postings.)
HUGS!
Sqrl
Sqrl:
Aw, fer chrissakes, Sqrl. Have you no sense of decency, sir? Attention to all who may feel the need to go back and re-read what Adam posted: Don’t! Really, it was just as Sqrl described it, and if you go back, you will be wasting precious moments of your lives. Moments better spent shoving bamboo shoots under your fingernails.
Waste
Flick Lives!
Uh, yes, Sqrl, I know - we’ve chatted before. (Oh, and welcome home - I’ve been watching UncleBeer’s progress reports on AsnerCon.) Did someone say me and Otto was it from the homo camp?
Esprix
Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.
Some of the things you wrote here make sence.
The tings that makes me mad about homosexuals is that they wanna marry, adopt, be priest etc.
My point is that not many decades ago, homosexuality was illegal in most countries in Western Europe and (I think) in North-America. Many saw of course that there was difficult to change the gays and the politicans therefor changed the law that said that this was illegal. (this happend in the 60’s and 70’s in most countries in W-Europe and Am.). The homosexuals was at this moment of course happy that they could practice their lifestyle without being afraid that they could be arrested.
The years are running and the gays arent satisfied with just this anylonger. They wanna have the same rights as marrid couples. not long after they wanna have a religious cermony when they “marry”,
Orion, allow me to introduce myself. I’m a conservative “gay” (if we must use that word as a noun). I don’t want to adopt children with a “life-partner” of my own sex. I don’t want to marry someone of my own sex. I don’t want to have sex with another man. Yet I find your opinions incredibly offensive, mostly because you are stereotyping all gays by the same judgments and pre-conceptions.
I believe that at least in my case, my homosexual feelings are caused by environmental factors when I was young, perhaps even when I was in the womb. I could be wrong about this and have no cites to back me up. But for goodness sake, stop lumping all gays into the same mold. There are “gays” in all walks of life, with all political persuasions, all opinions, etc. You might as well say “all blacks” or “all Jews” are trying to do something politically as say “all gays” are trying to corrode and corrupt society.