The Ethics of Homosexuality

Why not let peaceful honest people pursue their own happiness in their own way? If God does not like homosexuality, then leave that to God to deal with. Just as Liberals should keep their hands out of mens’ wallets, Conservatives ought to keep their hands off mens’ zippers.

You don’t have to choose homosexuality for yourself, and you can raise your children with your own moral values. But when they become adults, they will decide for themselves, like all other adults. If you want the “right” to decide for your own self, then you should acknowledge that same “right” for other men, even when you don’t like what they do, so long as they are not coercing you.

Libertarian wrote:

Well, unless they’re really cute, of course.

No, I agree that conservatives should stay away from men’s zippers–even the cute ones. I want to save all the cute guys for us liberal chicks.

“liberal chicks.”

Now, if that ain’t an oxymoron! :smiley:
Love ya, Gaudere.
Peace,
mangeorge (Oh no, another freakin’ liberal)

I only know two things;
I know what I need to know
And
I know what I want to know
Mangeorge, 2000

In a perfect world…heck, even in a good world, the laws of man would mirror the laws of God. No law giving any freedom to homosexuals is a good law. Not in my eyes, and certainly not in God’s.

Adam


“Life is hard…but God is good”

Must be rather . . . um . . . revelatory to be able to see through the eyes of God. :rolleyes:

In a perfect world . . . heck, even in a good world, zeal would not be considered a substitute for thought.

Yes, Quixotic, it is.

Lib feels that “Conservatives ought to keep their hands off mens’ zippers.” In the sentence before it he says,

Is it not safe to assume that God works through men, and His laws are mirrored by said Conservatives? In other words, maybe that IS God’s way of “dealing with it.”

I guess Lib’s OP just rubbed me the wrong way. And before any of you say it, I do not hate gays, and do not condone any violence toward them, or toward anybody. I just do not feel that the sin of homosexuality should be left to run it’s own course.

Damn straight it’s not safe to assume that! Many of those men are pedantic, theiving, lying pedophiles! Also, would you say the Bible is the literal Word Of God? Please say yes, I can’t wait to see you defend the murder of babies.

If you don’t believe it’s the literal Word Of God, then couldn’t you grant that perhaps a few men had some undevout thoughts and put in some homophobic hatred, without the will of God?

I don’t think any man should try to claim that his actions are God’s Will, ever. At best, they are his entirely fallible attempt to do what he thinks he ought. God may act in mysterious ways, but if you believe in free will, then God should never act through people (him making people do His Will ain’t free will).


I sold my soul to Satan for a dollar. I got it in the mail.

There is only one meaningful ethical question regarding homosexual behavior.

It happens to be the same meaningful ethical question that dominates heterosexual behavior –

i.e., where does fair license to express sexual feelings leave off and indefensible intrusion or coercion take over?

I’m a sissy boy, one who happens to have been either blessed or cursed with sexual appetites for the female folks rather than the male variety. For reasons that have to do with stereotyping, I’ve been assumed to be gay by a variety of people, including some rather intrusive gay fellows who gave me a bad case of the creepies and squirmies.

I’m also cursed with the reputation of my sex when it comes to striking up things with females: some assholes keep poisoning the well by being very invasive and only too often coercive, and the XX folks, with quite reasonable caution, assume I might do likewise until they have damn good reason to think otherwise (thank you very much, assholes!).

All of which is an ethical problem. People should not impose.


Disable Similes in this Post

Quote (sort of):
And before any of you say it, I do not hate gays, and do not condone any violence toward them, or toward anybody. I just do not feel that the sin of homosexuality should be left to run it’s own course.
—ARG220

I’m 55 years old and grew up in a small redneck town, ARG220, and I’ve been hearing versions of this statement all my life.
Just insert the name of the group of your choice where I bolded your post. Be sure to include the people who don’t feel as you do toward those groups.
Punishing “sin” is not the governments job. Nor is it your’s.
Peace,
mangeorge (Bakersfield CA)

ARG, do you eat lobster? How about pork? Do you wear wool/poly blend clothing or any other clothing not of one type of fiber?

I have nothing against lounge lizards, but the sin of wearing wool/poly blend sports coats should not be left to run its own course.

I have nothing against idiots, but the sin of stupidity should not be left to run its own course.

Ooh… I could go on all day with this!

He’s the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armor, shouting ‘All Gods are Bastards!’

I have nothing against termites but their sin of eating my house should not be left to run its course.

-Melin


Who is NOT Straight Dope Staff

Siamese attack puppet – California

ARG220, try to remember what man has done in the name of “God” throughout history before you raise that spectre here, please. Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin; how many millions of people have died with that being the last words they hear?

Absolutely. And many of them aren’t. It’s the ones who are good, strong, moral, ethical, God fearing people who I want making my laws.

Yes.

You don’t want to go there. Believe me, you can wait.

Again, I agree with this. And again, some men do follow God’s true Word

I DO believe in free will, and God does work through people, even those who aren’t Christian.

Mangeorge: Read above where I said that our laws should mirror God’s. Sin hurts. Keeping sin in check is not punishment. It’s actually helping the person. This applies to all sin across the board.


“Life is hard…but God is good”

I am going to reply to this, and try to base my reply on biblical teachings, but first some ground rules need to be ironed out.

First,if you are a christian, you can not base your opposition to Homosexuality on anything from the Old Testament. One of the founding principles of the christian church is that Christ established a NEW covenant with mankind, REPLACING the one that is taught in the Old Testament. If you do not believe this to be true, you better be following all of the laws set forth in the Old Testament, and I don’t know of any christians who keep kosher, make ritual sacrifices, follow the OT rules for sex and menstration, etc… An interesting historical aside is that this position was hotly debated in the first century church, with many feeling Jesus’s words were just for jews, and others holding out that they were for everybody. The later view won out, it being decided by the MEN who were leading the church that they needed to appeal to a broader base of people. I would agree that this is in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

That leaves the New Testament. Many Christians will steadfastly tell you that Jesus spoke against homosexuality. That is simply not true. If they’d bothered to read the Bibles they thump in other’s faces, they would notice that the topic is not covered in the gospels. Where is it mentioned then? It was mentioned by Paul, in the letters he wrote to the early churches. It was also written by Paul in those letters, that he was simply writing his own opinion on matters, to guide the early churches, presumably with the help of the Holy Spirit, to the truth. Paul was a member of a society where homosexuality was taboo. Certainly, if you look at his early history as Saul, he demonstrates a capacity for fanaticism, is it so unreasonable to assume that his cultural predispositions may have leaked into his writings? Remember, from a Jewish point of view, Homosexuality was evil. Even though when Paul admits that he is stating an opinion it is not directly related to homosexuality, the fact that he admits SOME of his views were opinions throws ALL of them into question. IMHO, it’s not enough to condem a practice that is never mentioned by Jesus. I’ll say that again. JESUS NEVER COVERS THE TOPIC. It was obviously not important enough for him to mention. Thus you have christians oposing an issue based either on outdated laws from God, or on ONE man’s opinion, and in so doing, often going directly against the atitutdes taught by Jesus. i.e. “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, “love you enemy” and “judge not lest ye be judged.” This is why a religious arguement dosen’t pass muster with me. God created mankind, some people are geneticly coded to be homosexuals, thus got created homosexuality. ( I’m gonna hear it about THAT, I’m sure ) If this is not true, why did Jesus not speak about it? I dunno, I guess I’m just one of those people who will leave the judgeing up to God. It’s frankly none of my business.

Oh, and Melin. None of the above appiles to termites. Get your’re house treated, pronto :slight_smile:


Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.

WOW! I sure screwed up “your” didn’t I?


Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.

So free will is only for heterosexuals?

Now that’s scary. What gives you the right to decide what’s good for someone else? Hmmm, claiming to speak for God? I think that you’re guilty of several sins: blasphemy (usurping God’s authority), idolatry (worshipping your own bogotry), and of course pride (since you’re so much better than those homosexuals, aren’t you?). I don’t hate blashemers, idolators, and the proud, but I don’ think that the sins of blasphemy, idolatry, and pride should be allowed to run <strike>it’s</strike> their course.

I’m going to have to agree with Arg, here. Yes, in Romans the NT mentions homosexuality, and says it is against God’s laws.
Freedom for homosexuals? They have freedom. Can they not vote? Or even practice homosexuality in private?
I don’t believe they are discriminated against. For every Matthew Shpeherd, there are many Christians in other countries being killed simply becuase they believe in God.