That is, practice targets in which you have to shoot someone mostly covered behind a victim they’re holding hostage. Google images “hostage targets” for examples.
I only saw these for the first time today, and I’m wondering if these are for serious tactical training or if they’re someone’s Rambo fantasy. I’m getting to be a reasonably good shot but even at close range I would NOT want to bet an innocent person’s life that my first shot would land in a three-inch circle. I know that if a policeman dealt with a hostage situation by putting a round through a gunman’s eye missing a hostage by four inches, they would be lucky to keep their badge.
ETA: that’s not even counting the targets where the gunman already has a bead on you or is holding a gun to the victim’s head.
I would presume that SWAT, Delta Force and LE hostage rescue teams would use them as part of their training as well as “shooting houses” but for the vast majority of shooters, it’s sheer fantasy.
All IADP shooting scenarios offer some kind of hostage targets.
Those that shoot in any of the action pistol sports see this kind of target.
There are points deducted for hitting the hostage, that is all, well except your bad guy target may not score as many hits, or your time will be high.
But runner pat is mostly correct in saying,
Others will say its training. I fall in that group;)
Gbro, I totally forgot about IDPA and the other shooting sports.
However, their website claims membership over 13,500 worldwide, a pretty small percentage.
Of those, I would imagine only a few could actually run one of those scenarios in real life fast enough to make a difference, assuming they can maintain their performance under conditions where the target shoots back or will shoot the hostage.
One thing we do know is practice helps. When bad things happen we really do not want to have to sit down and reinvent the wheel (if you will).
You are in a situation (real life) and the chance to end a hostage situation presents, you have done this many times in training(IDAP) You will have the confidence to take the shot.
Training Training Training, That is what all instructor teach.
And in real life I will be one of those few, how do I know? My training is going to carry me through and I will have righteousness on my side, added to that the Christian belief will alow me to not have any fear of the unknown;);)
There membership isn’t huge, but there are more Action pistol shooters than trap shooters in my area. I wonder how that would be nationally?
I’m an IDPA shooter as is Gbro. We not only use hostage targets as described, but also use targets that completely cover the “bad guy”. You first hit a steel target, that activates the target “no shoot” that covers the bad guy. The bad guy might be exposed for 3-5 seconds. You need to make your hits in that length of time.
Another method involves a swinging “no shoot” that obscures the “bad guy”. You need to make your hits while the target is not obscured.
I don’t think that this actually had any hostage targets per se, but I was immediately reminded of the Simpsons episode “The springfield connection” -the one where Marge becomes a cop. During police training, they have a marksmanship target range where some of the targets are obviously bad guys and some are innocent passersby - Marge is great at plugging the criminals immediately after they ‘pop up’ but holding her fire on the good guys - only to find out that Wiggum didn’t understand the distinction and has graded her down for ‘missing all those targets’
And paid off well in the end of the episode, where Marge is actually pursuing a criminal with gun drawn, and all kinds of recurring simpsons characters pop out of nowhere in her back yard and nearly get shot. Actually, THAT scene involved Homer being held hostage, but Marge didn’t resolve that with crack shooting, but with a trap door gambit.
Does IDPA also use that sort of thing, not a hostage target with the no-shoot and the shoot in close proximity, but just no-shoot targets popping out that you have to recognize?
The “No Shoot” targets are generally close to the shoot targets. They don’t always obscure the “shoot” targets, though it’s not uncommon that they do. We have done a scenario where there are several targets with bandannas of red or blue around the neck. At the start signal the shooter opens a box or picks up a cell phone with a photo attached. You are supposed to identify the targets to shoot, or not, based on the photo. So you might be told to shoot the ones with the matching color, or maybe to shoot the ones that don’t match. :smack:
Need to only hit the “bad guys”. Not always easy to shoot the correct targets, with good center of mass or head shots, and get a good low time score.
I’ve never formally shot IDPA, but shot a number of courses based off IDPA as well as other tactical courses (FBI Q, Sky Marshall, MEU-SOC for example). To mix it up, we’d often take a target and obscure most of it with a cardboard cutout of the same shape so they would be positioned like a hand of cards fanned out, except with only two “cards”. The one in the back was the bad guy and would have little more than the head and one shoulder exposed and you’d be scored for putting holes in it and not the other.
It may be fantasy because no one is going to be in that situation, and probably would not take the shot if they were, but it was great practice and will make you a better shooter.
IDPA, from what I understand, can have any type of scenario as long as it’s geared toward real world situations. It’s not like the heads of the IDPA will tell everyone what to do. The pop-ups are probably used at ranges that have the equipment to make targets pop up.
Correct. IDPA organizers provide guidelines as to maximum target distances and the like. They also provide rules on equipment such that IDPA doesn’t become an equipment race. No optical sights for example. There are five firearm classifications that help level the playing field so skill is emphasized rather than the depth of your wallet.
A clarification is needed. I do not shoot IADP, I shoot more like Fubaya;
Some of the shoots have a walk through and some don’t. One of the most intriguing scenarios I shot involved going into the station blind (no walk through) and finding your weapon on a bench with an empty gun your magazine is in your holder/pocket and your strong arm is disabled. You then have to load and shoot the scenario in that fashion. You are then moved to another point so that the next shooter is uninformed of what to expect.
I like any scenario where everyone is going in equal:cool:, not like that BS show fear factor.
We’ve held the Missouri State Match at our club for the last two years. Both times we’ve had a blind stage.
The first one was an AC fuselage mock up with some shoot and no shoot targets. The target location was changed for each shooter. It was made more difficult by having it pretty dark inside, and the shooter came in from a lighted area. Very difficult stage.
This year we had a mock up of a convenience store. The shooter was held in an anteroom and viewed a “security camera” screen that showed the target locations. He then entered a dark store and had to clear the aisles of bad guys without hitting the good guys. The stage ended with a door flying open and a bad guy target charging you.
I don’t think it’s totally the fantasy hiding place for wacked out gunslinger wannabes that you make it out to be. It’s just to give one perspective, and break up the monotony of 3 round circles with a big dot in the middle. Something similar to that.
Actually, THAT scene involved Homer being held hostage, but Marge didn’t resolve that with crack shooting, but with a trap door gambit.