Hotel of Heroes mafia

The Game Room
601

I agree, very suspcious. Ushi is a prime suspect, naturally some suspicion must fall on those who shifted the vote. Now unfortunately for me I was a bit of an enabler in that respect so my arguments, at the time though I simply suspected Oredigger more and felt that any other vote at that stage. My alternative was to either abstain or to effectively abstain by casting a vote against soemone who was not in danger of being lynched.

At this stage I felt Pleonast’s vote was extremely suspect. Mental guy gave better reasons, but his vote was the decisive vote, so he must be regarded with suspicion also.

Out of all Pleonast’s behaviour was the most suspcious, though I’m slightly torn as if he is scum then surely ushi is also by dint of the last minute voting. At the moment I’m going with Pleonast.

vote Pleonast

602

All of the last minute voting and unvoting certainly needs more analysis and discussion, but there was another vote earlier in the Day that bugs me.

In Post 387, **ushi **unvotes Scuba_Ben. This goes without comment until **Chipacabra’s **post 415

This is all fine and good. What bothers me is that **Chip **does not vote in this post…but after Post 417

and Post 421

then **Chip **comes back and votes in Post 423

When **Chip **originally brought up the issue of **ushi’s **unvote, there were 4 players tied with 2 votes. By the time he voted only 8 Posts later, **ushi **had 5 votes, with **peeker **and **cookies **tied for second with 2, and it looked like **ushi **was cruising toward a lynch until all of the last minute action.

A bit later in the Day he has this to say

But that’s not quite the way it happened. He didn’t vote for **ushi **until 2 other people had picked up on his suggestion and gone ahead of him. It seems like **Chip **was trying to float an idea and then wait to see if anyone would bite before he actually placed a vote.

Other non-fluff comments by Chip on Day 1
174 - doesn’t usually like mass claims, but sometimes they’re good
227 - we’re getting good participation
306 - we’re still getting good participation
310 - FOS **Pleonast **for his vote on peeker
565 - attacks **Pleonast **for his late vote switch to Oredigger

vote Chipacabra

for his “start a bandwagon and then wait for it to get moving before jumping on” vote, and ‘playing it safe’ the rest of the Day.

603

Apparently I slept well and felt safe during the Night…

Anyway…I’m of a strong(er) mind (now, more than ever) that Ushimi is scum and that Pleonast is his scumbuddy who rushed to save him from a lynch yesterDay.

Vote Pleonast (however, I’m also willing to vote Ushimi)

604

See, I’m of the opposite mind. I figure if we look at those who switched with last minute votes first and hit paydirt, then chances are Ushimi could be scum, too.
Whereas even if Ushimi is lynched today and turns out to be Town, people who voted for him could still be scum.

Makes more sense in my own mind but not sure it comes across as making more sense to anyone else.

605

If Ushi turns up Town, then sure, people who voted away from him (I assume that’s what you meant by voting for him) could be Scum, but only in the same sense that anyone at all could be. By the same token, even if the vote shift was mostly Town-driven, Ushi could also still be Scum. There’d be no real evidence either way, in that case. My argument for going after Ushi first, before the people who shifted the vote, is that there were enough people voting Oredigger, unvoting ushi, or both, that just by the numbers, they can’t all have been Scum. In other words, if what happened yesterDay evening was that Scum collaborated to save their Scum-buddy, then lynching ushi is certain to get is Scum, whereas lynching one of the vote-shifters is not certain, since we might get one of the innocent townies who were just caught along for the ride.

606

If you’re reading malicious intent into the timing of when I happen to log on with the time to post, I don’t know what to tell you.

607

Well, I’m fine with voting for either.

608

It has nothing to do with “when you log on with time to post”. It’s that you posted that you were suspicious of ushi, but didn’t vote, then after two other people ‘followed your lead’ you then joined them. There was only a 2 hour span between your first and second posts there, and the only posts in between were saying “good point Chip, I agree”. You seemed to be waiting for validation before sticking your neck out and voting.

That and the fact that you avoided posting anything else all Day that might be the least bit controversial, or tie you down to any particular point of view at all.

609

[underlining mine]

Chronos,

Twice you have talked about people unvoting ushi, but if you look at the votes, you will see that didn’t actually happen anywhere near the end of the day. The only person who unvoted **ushi **at any point was Idle, who had voted for him based on his interaction with Ed, then unvoted him to vote for me because of my supposed PIS regarding Scuba_Ben, and then re-voted **ushi **later on.

There may have been a concerted effort to vote for Oredigger, but there was no effort to vote away from ushi.

610

**Vote Count:

Ushimi(1): Chronos

Pleonast(2): Thesearemypants, Idle

Chipacabra(1): Suburban
**

611

I went back and read every single one of Peeker’s 65ish posts. My goal was to maybe figure out why scum targeted him, which might help figure out who the scum are. In the interest of keeping this post reasonable, I’ve majorly snipped most of the Peeker quotes I use. In all cases, I’ve directly linked to the post so you can check out what I’ve removed.

He was antagonistic towards Idle, Pleo, and Ed in some of his posts, but doesn’t really call them out in any substantial way (in my opinion). Lots of questions, lots of statements, lots of fluff, not a lot of substance.

His first vote was on Ushimi:

That’s hardly a vote that scum would be concerned with. Peeker’s vote comes down to “I don’t like how you’re playing.” I doubt scum would worry about that kind of thinking leading to a major train on Ushi later in the game, especially as he’s already survived Day 1 with better votes on him.

After this vote, he casts a ton of aspersions on pants. I’ve snipped a ton of his post just to give you the flavor of it:

He then immediately questions other people who talk about pants:

Interestingly enough, he’s defending pants against Meeko a mere two posts after singling him out himself. Again, I doubt a scummy Pants would be too concerned with offing Peeker before he could revisit this argument.

He says a ton of stuff like this:

And then he returns to attacking Ushi, both in the following post and several after:

His last substantial post is on Ushi:

In re-reading his posts, none of them gave me a “power” vibe. He comes out strong against Ushi, but so do a lot of other people. Killing Peeker would hardly silence those who wanted Ushi lynched yesterday. He gets into tiffs with Pleo and Idle and Pants, but never to the point of voting for any of them.

Ultimately, I can’t figure out why scum would vote for Peeker. In LOTR mafia when I was scum, I loved having Peeker on the town side. When I was a sure lynch, Peeker almost managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by getting his town butt lynched instead. In the absence of a power vibe or lynch argument that could gather a ton of steam, I just don’t see it.

There are a couple of potential conclusions I can draw from this:

  1. Scum had no clear kill target and selected one at random.
  2. Scum are looking for a specific target to kill, and suspected Peeker might be (one of) their target(s).
  3. They got a “power” vibe from Peeker.
  4. They wanted to protect a scummy Ushi.
  5. They wanted to cast doubt on a town Ushi.
  6. A misdirector successfully redirected onto Peeker.
  7. Something obvious I’m missing.

Sadly, this doesn’t get me closer to catching scum. However, I think it’s a worthwhile exercise to consider why scum might have picked their targets.

612

Is this to imply that you were protected last night? Your message isn’t 100% clear; did you receive that message from Mahaloth?

613

I did.
No idea if it meant I was protected or not. But what I say is pretty much verbatim.

614

At this point, I have a few new pings:

  1. Pleonast

I simply don’t see how anyone could think this, especially under the circumstances.

  1. Chronos
    For talking about people “shifting away” or “unvoting” me, when no one did any such thing.

It might be an honest ambiguous or mistaken statement, but it there are very different insinuations and implications.

Furthermore, on Day One it seemed to me that both these players were very much in-tune with my thinking (that is I generally agreed with the analysis and arguments offered by them), so to pop out such a radical difference from my thinking here really strikes me.

  1. Idle Thoughts
    I don’t follow the argument that Pleonast is somehow trying to save me. Pleonast clearly says he will change his vote if I do, and I’ve clearly asked for my vote to be changed if possible by proxy if it saves my skin.

In other words, Pleonast established that he’s going to nullify my proposed proxy vote switch to save my own butt. All that doesn’t add up, I’d say.

Not quite ready to vote yet, but combined with my previous two suspicions on cometothedarkside and Chipacabra, that’s the pool I’m looking at the closest.

615

Big surprise retirement party for my mom today, 4 hour round-trip drive to get there and back on only 4 hours of sleep last “night” after my shift. Just got home. Sleeping now. Mafia tomorrow.

616

Good morning! I’ll have a vegetable omelet, egg white only, and coffee with nonfat milk.

And sad to see you go, peeker.

I was convinced by storyteller and Astral Rejection’s posts into looking at Oredigger and hopping on the bandwagon. At the moment, I’m inclined to suspect storyteller more than Astral. I’ll go back and review both of their late-Day posts on Oredigger.

Plankton going after Chipacabra is interesting too.

Idle: Any particular reason you started the Day by claiming to have been possibly protected?
Everybody else: Did anybody get the same or a similar message as Idle?

FWIW, I would normally expect a Doc role in a game like this. OTTOMH, only International Mafia didn’t have a protective role in the Doper games that I recall. So there’s only a small change in information going from “Doc role expected” to “Doc role confirmed.” Which says nothing about who the Doc is, and I wouldn’t want the Doc to reveal themself too soon.

Other thought. At the moment, I’ll accept ushimi’s claim of VT to be as good as any VT claim. I don’t have any reason Today to go after him yet.

TLDR: I feel like I got suckered in by the late-Day effort on Oredigger. We have a Doc about, no big surprise there.

617

bah, humbug.

GO TOWN.

618

  1. Pleonast, can you explain for the record why you consider votes based purely on self-preservation to be anti-Town?

  2. While I am obviously disappointed about the outcome, I stand by the case I made on Oredigger. Scuba_Ben’s early attempts to distance himself - “oh, I guess I was hoodwinked into voting, because now I see that it was a bad thing” - are post hoc reasoning of the worst sort at best.

619

So, I for one, can’t believe the speed, that is by number of posts, that we lost OreDigger. By my count, the entire vote shift towards him started after the vote count at 502.

This is going to be a long one. If Meeko is saying that, you know it’s true.

**Story **starts the wagon at 504. He discounts Oredigger’s statement by invoking it’s day one status. This starts to be opportunistic to me. All comments made on day 1 can receive the same treatment. This turns out to be a weasel treatment (reaching ?) to Digger’s statement. Story continues throwing in some personal analysis, that starts down the same path as Chronos’ voting program. Also, or our old friend “Scum wouldn’t do that” shows up - inverted. Somehow, Only scum would do that shows up. Out side of P.I.S. [which is self evident], I’m not sure how Only Scum would say that would work.

Story continues to suggest Other voting targets, but ends up voting Oredigger. One wondders if the other targets weren’t scum mates.
Story also makes a comment that Digger withheld a Day 1 vote.

Aren’t all Day one votes a “Hold your nose” vote? I mean, yes, rare games have PIS on Day 1, but for the most part, by definition, you have limited info, and must JUSTIFY a vote based on it. Perhaps Oredigger was waiting to present his case better, or perhaps he was looking for something else to happen, to change and or confirm his suspiscion.

Wolverine Unvotes Story [Surprising] at 509. The unvote from Story has no justification. At 511, Wolverine votes Digger, after Story did, and mentions now that he is best friends with Story [That story has a good lead] and he tries to offer this up after the “Me Too” vote.

Nothing else here. It would seem you can hang yourself on saying too much, or too little.

Astral Immediately suggests that a Me Too vote is comming, but instead of hanging his vote on Story, he will hang it on Wolverine. And so, the Barrel of Monkeys begins. Interesting though, that Astral doesn’t quote Wolverine.

Astral puts up a good defense of of switching off of Scuba, given that Ed subbed out. Good Defense here, and it is so good it scares me. That is, I can’t dispute it, so if Scum use it, it would he harder to figure out.

Astral then puts up a quote from Story, that I basically already addressed above. More of the Me Too that we knew was coming, and as I see it, more defending of Storytellers “points” that I, to put it lightly, do not agree with.

Then, a post commenting that Digger just said “Nothing”. I think the net result of calling another post “Nothing” makes the call out post (or part of the post) Nothing.
As far as I can tell, the next is STILL on the “Strange Pronouns” “”" case “”". I think the entire issue revolves around generic inside information – not from same scum in the same game, but from our close knit group of 50 or so of us.

I mean, it just seems to be over reaching on an idiocyncracy of the Player, and not his role.

In a farily recent previous game*, after the game ended, I read the scum boards, and found it the interpretations of my posts to be interesting. I was a false positive to some scum looking through posts. I made a joke or an offhand comment, and scum nearly killed me becauase of it.

All of that to say, I’m not sure this lead ever had legs, on Day 1, or on day 100. In hindsight, seems way overworked.

  • MY guess would be in the past year / year and a half.

More House of cards posting: Astral essentially makes a post supported by Digger being Scum, As Digger is now town, this post becomes nothing as well.

And then, we are at the end of Astral’s. Where Again, a now deflated post is evident. Comments on Digger being full of nothing, that have now, also become Nothing.

A. This is the Third vote on Digger. Make with that what you will.
B. Astral made comments about Wolverine, yet went back to Story and Digger. I wonder if this wasn’t done to trap a Town Wolverine that a Scum Astral could point to, if and when need.

**
Scuba Ben** ATTEMPTS to essentially WOW Digger to comment on his nothingness.

Yet, Nothingness times Nothingness is Nothingness.

Outside of the WOW, we have A Scuba Basically speaking for Wolverine, trying to Upgrade Wolf’s “Me too” into a “I am right there beside you” vote.

Ben also points out that the wagons have now started, with the implication that UShimi or Digger will hang. I wonder the motivation for this.

Take the heat off of that information by asking what PIS is. [I would have thought that Ben already knew this.]

Also, is he planting seeds for a Mental Guy wagon? Why would you mention the Double E brothers ?

**
Pants** gets on the wagon next, and wow.

Pants somehow assumes that he only has two people to vote for, Ignoring the 15-20 or so other candidates.

But, to be fair he said he wanted to make his vote ““count””. He gets his vote counted, just as much as anyone else [Including mine] – Yet at the same time, he is "wary of castign [sic] a meangingless vote "
So, he wants his vote to ““count”” but he thinks it is meaningless.

Pleonast comes in and more or less makes the most opportunistic vote of the game.

Mental comes in and does a Me Three

Ok, So, we have 7 votes on Digger. Immediately, I am pingged by some players more than others.

Pleo and Pants, Astral and Ben.

I could narrow it down from here, but I think the day is still young. Something could prove me wrong.

Suffice to say, I think I just named scum in that short list.

620

Pants: I think this is the best way to ask you.

Apparently, I misread your quote above in my longer post above mine.

**Why do you feel pressure to have your vote count? Why did you eliminate all other options [apparently] so that you only had a 50-50 shot at voting?

Why did you say you wanted to make your vote count, but then immediately pull it back with “meaningless” ? **

You mention in this same post that you think scum have to, or at least should, play " a bit more tentative."

**How do you reconcile " tenative " with making your vote count AND fearing casting a meaningless vote? **