Wait a minute…now I’m confused…what just went on here? Because it looks like this:
pants: **Astral **said I’m Scummy, and that just doesn’t make sense. I’m voting for him!
Astral: I didn’t say that!
pants: Oh really? I just reread your post, and it still looks like you’re saying I’m Scummy, but if you say you aren’t, well…OK… Unvote
me: ???
So in other words, you only had one shot, and it was quasi-compulsive?
Of the three WoWs I did, Scuba and Story both struck me as scummiest. I tried to be honest (“scrupulously honest,” as Story puts it) and noted when things did not particularly seem scummy. I pointed out where Pants seemed scummy, but more often than not said that I leaned townie on one behavior or another.
For instance, after half of the WoW, I conclude: “Honestly, up to this point I’m getting a very solid townie vibe from Pants. Of course, this vibe won’t last long.”
Then I found some suspicious behavior, but I also defended his actions regarding Pleo. We’re all guilty of some suspicious behavior, and in compiling that list, I didn’t have a substantial case. Despite what Story tried to suggest, I didn’t go into these WoWs with the goal of cherry-picking scummy behavior; instead, I was really taking a look at each poster. I’m not prepared at this time to call Pants scum based on what I saw.
Scuba_Ben and Story? Definitely. But Story first.
Snipped.
This one line from Story 's “Why is this Scummy” song that doesn’t end just stuck out at me.
**
Story:**
1. Where is the Town motivation to snip out URL info in a smoke screen?
2. Where is the Scum motivation to snip out URL info in a smoke screen?
Wouldn’t a Town player want to be held accountable to what he said?
Wouldn’t a Scum player seek to make sure there was no, if you will, paper trail?
How does this wash with the “With a few very modest exceptions (which I’ll chalk up to misreading or misunderstanding), I have in fact done everything that Astral Rejection accuses me of doing.” line ?
I’m reminded of that old song.
Apparently, Cookies bugged out and killed Chip. Chip died and triggered Skeezix. Skeezix in turn then had to kill [Mental Guy].
**Correct? **
And the green grass grows all around, all around, and the green grass grows all around.
An unfortunate series of events, then, but not one that I could have foreseen. Glad you at least hit a Vanilla and not the Doc or something, Red. Sorry to have put you on the spot.
This is the second time you’ve gone back to gather some of my posts as evidence that I promised not to kill, which I did not do. I said that I would not kill if that was the consensus that was reached. Further you neglect to put any responsibility for lack of consensus at where at least some of it belongs…on the people who said jack crap about what they thought I should do. And you fail to quote the earliest proposal post from me, which is what I ended up doing (with some adjustment, yet again, for ushi’s caustic playstyle that I think has tainted the early game and has gotten him votes that he wouldn’t otherwise be getting), which was this post:
This was the vote count at the time of my post:
And this was the vote count at the end of the Day:
Also in hindsight, since I was already suspicious of Chip and had been voting for him prior to switching to Pleo, and since the Scum could easily make some safe votes to ensure that a Townie was the runner up for the lynch in case I did decide to kill the runner up, I do wince a bit for not giving that more thought, and I did think about it the risk that the runner up could be manipulated, just not enough.
It also underscores my reasons to keep my vote firmly on Storyteller at this point, and it underscores my growing suspicion of Suburban.
Mahaloth, please sub me out. I am having severe issues paying attention, including to this game. My non-participation is detracting from everybody else’s play.
I’m very sorry to everybody for not playing last week or this. I’m getting a firm reminder of why I shouldn’t play Mafia.
On Chronos:
On Day 1 he votes for **Ed **for criticizing **ushi **for making an unprovoked Vanilla claim while not criticizing **Idle **for the same thing.
**Ed **explained that there is no point in criticizing **Idle **for this, because he’s going to do it anyway if he feels like it, but there may be use in criticizing ushi, because as a new player he might be persuaded that it’s not a good move. Forget for the moment any issues concerning **Ed’s **‘tone’, or whether or not you personally agree with **Ed’s **viewpoint, as those are irrelevant to the case. **Ed **saw the ‘**Idle **claim’ and the ‘**ushi **claim’ as two *different *issues, requiring two *different *responses, so voting him for doing exactly that is in my opinion a bad vote.
On Day 2 he votes **ushi **because he thinks the late-Day voting switch from **ushi **to **Oredigger **seemed Scum-motivated.
First, his original permise was flawed because there was no ‘vote-shift’. Once that is pointed out to him, he acknowledges his error but does not address how that may or may not affect his argument. Second, he is voting **ushi ***not because he thinks **ushi *is Scum, but because he thinks that killing **ushi ***might *tell us something about the people who voted for Oredigger. But then again, it might not, he admits. Later he points out that he doesn’t think we should kill **ushi **just for information, but “because there’s a plausible reason to think he might be Scum.” (Post 647) But the only evidence he has offered that **ushi **is Scum is that there was a vote-shift (which there technically wasn’t)r; he hasn’t offered any evidence that anything **ushi **himself has said is actually Scummy.
Later, he unvotes **ushi **as soon as **Pleonast **makes his claim and his reveal of Cookies. As I pointed out at the time, nothing **Pleo **had to say was in any way remotely related to ushi, so there was no reason for an unvote at that time.
On Day 3 he votes **ushi **again, this time because **ushi **is upset with the Town for not lynching **Cookies **Yesterday, which he directly blames for the extra Town deaths last Night.
The problem with this vote is that once again he never tells us why **ushi’s **actions are Scummy. He says **ushi **is “just trying to stir up confusion” (Post 852), but fails to address the fact that **ushi **is factually correct. If we had lynched Cookies Yesterday, then she would not have killed Chip, which means that Red Skeezix would not have been triggered, and he would not in turn have killed Mental Guy. Of course, all of this information was not known when **Chronos **made his vote (**Red **had not yet admitted to killing Mental Guy at that point), but **ushi’s **argument was no less valid at that time. Whether you agree with **ushi **or not, how is ‘making a valid point and defending it’ suddenly ‘stirring up confusion’?
I think it’s interesting that none of Chronos’ votes for ushi, nor his unvote, really seem to have anything to do with what **ushi **did or did not say. Yesterday, it was all about ‘gathering information’, and it seems that **ushi **was nothing but collateral damage. Today, it’s because he finds **ushi **to be confusing, but never actually addresses what he said.
**ushi **has gotten a lot of heat during this game for the way he has said things; far more than for what he has actually said. It looks to me that **Chronos **is looking for reasons to vote for ushi. I don’t know if that’s because he is being influenced by **ushi’s **‘posting style’, or if it’s because he knows that other people are being influenced by **ushi’s **posting style and is trying to ride that train.
I don’t know why but i’m having a hard time really thinking about this game. When that happens i like to do something mechanical. It’s a little early for one of these, but i’m trying to get my head back into this. Most interesting is what i see on day 1 ushi votes. Since we believe that cookies was 3rd party on day 1. it would leave only one unknown amongst all those other town players. It’s probably nothing though.
Vote count (colored):
Day 1 Vote Tally
oredigger(7) :storyteller[504], Wolverine[511], astral rejection[522], scuba_ben[524], these are my own pants[546], pleonast[553], mental guy[555]
ushimitsudoki(6) :idlethoughts[331-448][453], peeker[333], cookies[417], OAOW[421], chipacabra[423], oredigger[548]
idlethoughts(1) :suburban plankton[237]
scuba_ben(1) :chronos[244]
chronos(1) :red skeezix[280]
pleonast(1) :Wolverine[472]
cookies(1) :ushimitsudoki[496]
these are my own pants(1) :meeko[482]
peeker(0) :
suburban plankton(0) :
storyteller(0) :
Did Not Vote:
Day 2 Vote Tally
pleonast(8) :these are my own pants[601], idlethoughts[603], OAOW[627], meeko[630], cookies[722], chronos[742], chipacabra[743], Wolverine[753]
chipacabra(3) :suburban plankton[602], storyteller[759], mental guy[669]
Wolverine(1) :astral rejection[637]
idlethoughts(1) :pleonast[650]
mental guy(1) :red skeezix[683]
cookies(1) :ushimitsudoki[705]
ushimitsudoki(0) :
scuba_ben(0) :
Did Not Vote:scuba_ben
Vote count colored with unvotes as well:
Day 1 Vote Tally
oredigger(7) :storyteller[504], Wolverine[511], astral rejection[522], scuba_ben[524], these are my own pants[546], pleonast[553], mental guy[555]
ushimitsudoki(6) :idlethoughts[331-448][453], peeker[333], cookies[417], OAOW[421], chipacabra[423], oredigger[548]
idlethoughts(1) :suburban plankton[237], [del]scuba_ben[386-390][/del], [del]pleonast[499-553][/del]
scuba_ben(1) :chronos[244], [del]ushimitsudoki[268-387][/del], [del]these are my own pants[291-316][/del]
chronos(1) :red skeezix[280], [del]cookies[383-417][/del]
pleonast(1) :[del]meeko[304-482][/del], Wolverine[472], [del]oredigger[489-548][/del]
cookies(1) :[del]mental guy[408-555][/del], [del]astral rejection[412-522][/del], ushimitsudoki[496]
these are my own pants(1) :meeko[482]
peeker(0) :[del]pleonast[238-433][/del], [del]scuba_ben[390-524][/del]
suburban plankton(0) :[del]pleonast[433-499][/del], [del]storyteller[445-504][/del], [del]idlethoughts[448-453][/del]
storyteller(0) :[del]Wolverine[500-509][/del]
Did Not Vote:
oredigger will be lynched.
Day 2 Vote Tally
pleonast(8) :these are my own pants[601], idlethoughts[603], OAOW[627], meeko[630], [del]red skeezix[645-683][/del], cookies[722], chronos[742], chipacabra[743], Wolverine[753]
chipacabra(3) :suburban plankton[602], [del]cookies[654-722][/del], storyteller[759], mental guy[669]
Wolverine(1) :astral rejection[637]
idlethoughts(1) :pleonast[650]
mental guy(1) :red skeezix[683]
cookies(1) :ushimitsudoki[705]
ushimitsudoki(0) :[del]chronos[598-723][/del], [del]Wolverine[632-714][/del], [del]chipacabra[652-697][/del]
scuba_ben(0) :[del]astral rejection[628-637][/del]
Did Not Vote:scuba_ben
Upon further reflection, the runner-up manipulation angle is a null tell since in the case of most/all of the votes on Chip being Town, the scum would not have really needed to do actively do anything.
I still think the case against Story sans that bit is valid and and I still think Suburban is trying really hard to smear me and is at least guilty of confirmation bias in his inaccurate attempt to read my mind and neglecting to consider/include various things that degrade his perspective that I’m lying scum.
Mahaloth, when does this day end?
In answer to Astral’s question.
You’re a peach. 
No, but thanks for saying please. 
I wonder if we can’t also bug Maha for a current vote count ? I mean, while we are at it…
No.
Just kidding.
**Vote Count:
Ushimi(4): Idle, Wolverine, Meeko, Chronos
Wolverine(1): Ushimi
Cometothedarkside(1): Suburban
Suburban(1): Red Skeezix
Story(2): Astral, Cometothedarkside
Astral(1): Storyteller**
I would urge everyone to reread my post about Story, Story’s rebuttal, and my second post about him. I have a very, very strong scummy feeling about him, and I consider him our best lynch candidate.