I am like Chronos, in that my initial assumption is that this will be a power role heavy game. Now obviously that is just an initial assumption and certainly my opinion could change. If Idle’s claim for example, is somehow confirmed, that would not disprove my assumption, but it would be a small piece of evidence against it.
I doubt a name claim would do much good. We will get some data after the first couple of deaths. If it looks like names might indicate alignment, then I would be more likely to advocate a name claim. If it looks like names indicate powers, then I would be less likely.
Idle, I know it is your policy to claim immediately in games, but would you mind explaining why you think this is a good thing. I feel like mass claims are often useful, but a lone claim without pressure doesn’t really seem to accomplish anything.
On preview, I see that Ed has commented on the name claim. The reasons he give are pretty much why I think we should wait for some deaths before deciding.
meeko i think there have been several post subsequent to pant first post referenced that encouraged folks to get ideas out and about, especially some of the newer folks. nothing is worse than having a bunch of folks sitting around wringing there hands mumbling what do i do oh noes what do i do.
and i may have deleted a line in your post but i think i fixed it back to it’s original. but i didn’t monkey with any of the words.
It’s not really my policy, I’m just more likely to do it if I’m vanilla Town because, really, what have I got to lose if I’m Vanilla Town? I’m not very useful (by way of not having any “powers”)…whereas if I were a Detective or other power role, claiming early would be pretty foolish (although I did claim on Day One before when I was a Doc and another time when I was a Vigilante). Mostly all my Day One claims are when I’m vanilla, though…the way I see it, if I’m believed, great…if not, well, Town won’t lose much by mistakenly lynching me.
I’ve already revealed the alignment of my fictional character. The information I know in this respect is that I am town and I have a fictional character who is known as a ‘goodie’. This gives me a strong suspicion that everyone has been given a character that also conincides with their alignment. Others have disputed the value of a name claim for the legitimate reasons 1) it may not even force scum to lie about their characters names 2) it may reveal powers.
As far as I can see if we do as I propose it gives us a better idea if name claims are made at a later stage at being able to assess the value of such claims and does so without us having to worry about powers being revealed.
i’m generally not in favor of name claims. to me it’s like being half pregnant. in one of these durn games where we went down this route i was the wicked witch of the west. promptly got lynched and i was niller townie. so even if everyone claims truthfully the only party that benefits is scum. they know their names and related canon. so they can already determine whether there is any correlation between name and alignmnet and/or power. town doesn’t have that luxury except on an individuals basis.
If we do as i suggest and everyone claims they are known as ‘goodie’ I think it would be reasonable to assume that there is correlation with alignment as presumably the scum who, as you say, have a much better idea than the twon about such issues would lie. That’s of course precluding the possibilty that veryone including scum have been assigned character known as ‘goodies’.
I think anyway we can put scum in the situation of either having to lie or having to consider lying is good as long as it’s not detrimental to the town.
The problem with claiming whenever you’re vanilla (or even just often when you’re vanilla) is that any Scum who knows you can then deduce that, if you do not claim, then you’re a power role. Sure, they won’t know which power role, but that’s not really all that important for Scum, since the Scum reaction to almost any power role is the same (kill it preferentially).
Meanwhile, I’m not sure it’s all that useful, but I don’t like to see Town paralyzed by fear that they might accidentally somehow vaguely help Scum, so I’ll come out and say that my character is good-aligned. I also see no harm in a claim of what canon we’re from (since that would give no information at all about power roles), so I’ll also go ahead and say that my character is from comics.
but to some extent if everyone claims “goodie” what the heck is the point? and define “goodie” v “baddie”. i mean i was a miller/doc in one game (thanks a heaping ton story) that based on canon my character was good for a while, then bad for a while, then good for a while. lather, rinse repeat.
that’s why i still think the i am spartacus is a decent route. everyone gets a name and role claim out of the way right out of the chute. with the understanding that we are full of shit so that subsequent claims are not held to a lynch all liars standard. it would only be problematic if we do an ancient rome based theme. but then we could all claim that we are wall-e.
Who’s to say I couldn’t say I was Vanilla Town anyway even if I was a Power Role? Really, don’t you think I’ve had thought about that? Let the scum have some WiFoM, I figure.
yaknow i am going to weigh in on this on a different board this time because it has truly become a fascinating phenomenon.
idle/pleo have grown accustomed to claiming vanilla right out of the gate most times. sometimes they are vanilla, sometimes they are power roles, sometimes they are scum. sometimes when they don’t claim they are vanilla, sometimes they are a town power role and sometimes they are scum.
it’s a fracking null tell and null advantage either way. i mean if he is not scum, scum already know this and don’t believe him regarding power or lack thereof and town doesn’t belive him anyways. if he’s scum scum already know this and town doesn’t believe him anyways. and if he is a town power scum already know that he is not scum and doesn’t believe him and town still don’t believe him.
I’m not a huge fan of mass claiming, but I’ll admit it’s a gamble that can, maybe, sometimes pay off. But I think that in most of the games I’ve seen around here, scum have the advantage of given covers, or at least being able to coordinate their lies, whereas town power roles are left flapping in the breeze.
Because it still tells us something. If everyone claims to be a goodie the likeihood is that character equals alignment, if we get a random mix then we can assume that character and alignment are not correlated. If we get only a few claiming t be from some alignment, well I think that could be quite revealing in itself.
I think whatever information we get from such a claim could be beneficial to the town if anyone claims a specific name and shouldn’t give anything away to the scum. I see it as a low risk (though admittedly low reward) move for the town.
This where I agree with you, despite intially being in favour of revealing names. However if we limit the claim such that powers cannot be revealed (as I suggest) I can’t see how it can be a bad move for the town.
I certainly would not be in favour of lynching anyone just because they claimed their character was a known ‘baddie’.
If everyone claims a “goodie”, then we would know one of two things: either all players were given “good” characters, or the scum are lying. If there are some “baddie” claims then we know that either some town players were given “bad” characters or that the scum actually have “bad” characters and are claiming truthfully to give themselves cover if there is a name claim.
I don’t necessarily think it will do a lot of good, but don’t really see any harm in it either.
I am not actually familiar with my character and had to look it up on wikipedia. From the description I think it would fall in the “good” category, although it might be more “neutral”. I definitely think it is not a “baddie”.
scum, by nature, are lying every time they post. lying about a name (or shoot even being honest about it) really shouldn’t be much of a threat. especially if they have been provided cover roles.
but a “name” claim presents town with some challenges. suppose you are cannonically a “baddie”. do you be truthful and fear the wrath of the myopic or do you try to lie yourself out of a bad “name”. conversely suppose that you are assigned a name that is identical to cannon (you are sherlock holmes and you are the town investigator) do you type it up and hope that scum don’t get a hard on for that role or do you lie? or do you even go down the path of i am sherlock holmes but i swear i am vanilla. seriously. no shit. trust me.
that’s why i agree with ed (i think). there are times and places for everything but now would not be the time for a name claim. or any other type of claim except for:
If done in a free for all, what’s to prevent Scum from waiting to see what happens and if non_Scum are claiming bad, then feeling safe, if not, claiming a goodie name?
Let the scum have some WiFoM, I figure. 