I’m hoping to learn something here, as I don’t know enough about either of these guys to know which one would be better. Pelosi has endorsed Murtha, but it’s unlcear (to me) if she is dead set against Hoyer, or just is more closely aligned with Murtha. Anyone got ideas about these guys? Does it matter?
Murtha is more useful to the Dems. He’s got serious military cred. Even Shrub knows better than to shit on Murtha on military matters. If you’re gonna change directions in Iraq, you want a guy like Murtha leading the charge.
Pelosi and Murtha go way back and get along well, even though their views on lots of issues differs. Pelosi and Steny reportedly don’t get along very well at all, due partly to past rivalries in efforts to join the leadership.
My money is on Hoyer to win.
Dissent from The Nation.
OTOH, Hoyer’s name sounds too much like the punchline to that old political joke –
INDIAN CHIEF: But be careful, Senator! Don’t step in the hoya!
(Georgetown alumni should really appreciate that one. 
)
The GOP has done it to veterans in the past - if they don’t shit on Murtha, I’d say it’s just because they can’t.
Earlier today I would have said Murtha in a heartbeat, but he apparently has some ethics issues, and that’s been one of the party’s top priorities.
I think Bush tried to shit on Murtha once before, and it blew up in his face. Haven’t heard anything about possible ethics issues though…
I respect Murtha’s stand on Iraq, but he has issues. He’s a pork barreler to beat the band, and probably dirty. I don’t know much about Hoyer, but Murtha gives me great pause. The dems need to do better than this.
For what it’s worth, my local paper (San Jose Mercury) had a story about this today and pronounced Murtha the underdog, indicating that Hoyer has more support among House Dems. At this point anyway. Link.
Not surprising. Murtha’s really only known for the public stand he took a few years ago; Hoyer’s been in the House leadership for nearly twenty years.
If Murtha wins the leadership post, it’s not good news for the Democrats - it’ll be harder to convince people that “Just get out of Iraq ASAP, no matter what happens” won’t be their main point, and while Murtha may be a war hero, he also only avoided getting indicted in ABSCAM by turning evidence on another Congressman.
I’m undecided on whether the allegations surrounding Murtha have merit or not, but I agree that the best move for the Dems would be to avoid even the appearance of impropriety – whether that’s by passing him over for the post or by imposing extra restrictions, they should do something to avoid even the stink of Republican-style corruption.
And my understanding is that Pelosi is endorsing Murtha primarily because he supports her most of the time, whereas Hoyer has butted heads with Pelosi in the past.
If Pelosi where smart, she would have embraced Hoyer and used it as an example of her willingness to work with people she might not necessarily always get along with. Not only that but she would have avoided all this bullcrap with Murtha and his past.
I will take this rare opportunity to agee with everything you said in that post. 
I posted this last night in response to a DailyKos diary supporting Hoyer:
He’s been my Congressman for eight years now, so I can say this with some authority.
His voting record in this Congress - aside from bankruptcy, the Patriot Act renewal, and his vote for the COPE Act (which could still kill Net Neutrality in the lame-duck session if we don’t watch it) - is pretty good, really. He’s pro-Social Security, pro-minimum wage, he voted against the goddamn Energy Bill, against Estate Tax Repeal, against the Military Commissions Act, and against a bunch of smaller stuff you never heard of that the Bushies were trying to shove down our throats.
But he’s not any sort of leader. Call his office mere hours before a vote on a controversial issue, to find out which side he’s on - and you can’t find out, until he’s voted. This has happened to me time and time again, and I’m so freakin’ TIRED of it.
Hoyer doesn’t know how to get out in front and lead. We’ll be lucky if he even leads from behind.
I’m sure he’s a great Democratic Whip, and he usually votes the right way. But if there’s a smidgen of leadership in the man, I’ve yet to see it.
I’ve taken a quicker trip through Murtha’s voting record than Hoyer’s. Murtha also voted for Bankruptcy Deform, but voted against the Patriot Act renewal, and voted against the COPE Act that would have gutted Net Neutrality. So on the things Hoyer’s bad on, vote-wise, Murtha’s good on 2 of 3.
And I haven’t been able to find any countervailing strikes against Murtha so far. Good on Social Security and the minimum wage; voted against Estate Tax repeal; against the Military Commissions Act and against warrantless wiretapping; yada yada yada.
And Jerome Armstrong says Murtha’s got the votes, but I’m not sure how much credence to put in that. But apparently this ain’t Beltway Kabuki; Pelosi’s really going to the mats on this. I’m quite surprised by that.
Why would they try? That *was * the main issue in the election. It *is * the primary thing they got hired to do.
Get that done and we can move on.
No – the Dems on a whole did not run on a “get out of Iraq ASAP” platform. The various Dem candidates took various positions on that. What “they got hired to do” was find some way of dealing with the problem other than W’s way, which the voters were fed up with.
The ABSCAM video currently available at The American Spectator (sorry, I was led there by The Washington Post) is not reassuring concerning Murtha’s ethics. He was an unindicted co-conspirator in that mess.
I’m troubled by the video of Murtha in the ABSCAM affair. It isn’t like he rejected the idea of taking the money, it’s that he couldn’t take it then. The Dems should set the bar higher and the ABSCAM video rules out Murtha, in my opinion.
Come to think of it, why is there even a position of “House Majority Leader”? The Speaker of the House is the House majority leader.