House odds

The report ( http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhouseodds.htm ) says that all games in the casino have odds that favor the house. This is not strictly true when it comes to poker (not poker machines). Generally the players are playing against each other (not the house) and the house drags the pot for its handle. Thus over the long haul you will have winners and losers whereas in the long haul on the other games the casino wins and the players all lose.

Actually, the article says, “Casino games are almost always designed to favor the house.” So there’s a qualifier already in the article.

But casino-sponsored poker is just a like all of the other games: A few people come out with more money, most people come out with less money, and the house gets it’s share.

Doesn’t matter with table poker, the house wins no matter which player wins or loses. The rake is the rake and the house gets their share so there’s no way the house can lose. If anything, poker is the one game where the house is sure to get a cut. Remember, the players win money from each other, not the house.
Depends on how you look at it I suppose.

The same thing is true of the Chinese game of Pai Gow: the house rake is a percentage of the win by the players. When the house banks, it gets the rake plus the natural advantage of the banker. When it doesn’t bank, it still gets its cut. :slight_smile:

Similarly Baccarat takes a rake from the wins of the players who bet on the Bank.

So, all games in the casino have odds that favor the House. In the case of games where the player doesn’t play directly against the House, the House takes a rake.

There is one game that doesn’t have percentages inherently in favor of the House: BlackJack. On the surface, the rules favor the House, but by clever strategies of betting and card counting, that can be altered to the player’s favor. Which, of course, is why the house won’t allow you to do that if they suspect that you are. :slight_smile: Bricker mentions this in the report.

I will however pick one slight nit with the report: While it is true that regular pass line bets (and come bets, and their antitheses, don’t pass and don’t come) have a vigorish of more than 1%, most, if not all, casinos allow you to take “free odds” after the intial roll on the bet, which allow the vigorish to be reduced, usually to under .6%. It’s a no-brainer for reducing the speed of losing. :slight_smile:

Faro also favors the player if he’s a counter, a fact that was known long before blackjack counting was even invented.

This is a very valid observation – casinos will often allow you to place an additional amount behind your initial pass and come bets, and that additional bet is paid at the true mathematical odds. You cannot make this bet unless you have first played the line, so the house retains an edge, but as DSYoung points out, this does reduce the house edge, with a bigger reduction the higher the “multiple” is. The casino may allow you to bet, say, two times your original wager, which will reduce the house odds overall to 0.6 percent.

…And my understanding (belief?) is that they do this at the craps tables not out of any generosity, but out of the knowledge that it gets more money out on the table. A table with lots of money on it is more exciting than one without, and more conducive to drawing in yet more players.

A few years ago at a conference in Vegas a coworker offered to show a group of us how craps is played. He told the pit boss what he was doing and there was quite a little crowd around the table in a very short time. There were also several extra casino employees who suddenly appeared who were very happy to explain as well, it was all very friendly and jolly.

He lost a couple thousand dollars in a very short amount of time.

The house comped his room and bought him dinner. I heard the pit boss talking with him and it all about “let’s see what we can do for you here.”

Just doing business.

Great report, Bricker. I learned a lot.

A small nitpick: in Casablanca, it’s Rick’s Cafe Americain, not American: Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

One casino game that Bricker skipped that can favor the player is video poker, specifically deuces wild. The payout rates and strategy used influence expectations, but the odds can be in the player’s favor. The Wizard of Odds has a good outline on video poker.

Double Bonus video poker, when played with perfect strategy and the correct payout table, can yield the house a loss.

However, in order for the house to take a loss, sustained play is required (long enough to hit the Royal Flush on max bet). Also, most of the casinos in Vegas use the less attractive payout tables.

For the math behind the optimal-strategy payout of Full Play Deuces Wild, see Deuces Wild

Actually, it is done as a way to compete. Initially, a house would offer free odds. Then another house would offer double odds. Eventually, everyone is offering free odds at some level. Some offer as much as 100x odds during competitive periods of the year. This is rarely seen in areas where there are only a few casinos.

You will notice that there is no place outlined for this bet, and it is not suggested by the croupier at any time. :smiley:

(In other words, it’s for high rollers to use, those who know the odds of what they are doing and rarely put more than chump change on the proposition bets)

the best bet in the house is going to be on the craps table.

The pass line odds bet is almost even money on the vigorish.

Cecil is right on the pass line bet, but once the point is established, if you can find some person at a table not taking odds on the pass line bet, and they let you ride on the bet - you get the best bet in the house.

it’s still in the houses favor - but it’s the least favored bet.

BTW, Roulette isn’t the best game to trust to chance.

Many long time dealers on a roulette table can spin for sections. Some of the better dealers I worked with could drop a ball on a regular basis in a three number section. Best I could do was in a five number section.

If you want to win in a casino - tip the dealers often. On a blackjack table, they’ll start playing for you. On a craps table, they’ll either hand you money, or ask you for checks to mold your bets, on roulette, they’ll aim for your numbers.

I’m not saying you’ll win, but your odds will increase in your favor.

The dealer in Blackjack has no discretion on how to play es own hand. If you mean that e’ll advise you on how to play yours, that’s just the same as knowing basic strategy.

I’m surprised they let you keep a notebook to record how well you did. How did you find the time to write down your results, when it got busy?

So, how does this work? You hand them money, and they hand you money? Someone’s ending up on this transaction, and someone’s ending up down. Or is it the house’s money they’re handing you? In this case, I would expect them to get arrested.

I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. Could you elaborate?

Well Chronos,

All I have to say as you dissect my reply is that your interpretation and sarcasm are the precursors to your own failures to see what was said.

the blackjack dealer will play your hand for you by either handing a card or waving cards.

The roulette dealer can clear a table when a stroke buys in for 100 , spreads a table, then expects them to clean a table and rinse, wash, repeat without a tip.

As for the “handing money” either you won some cash (minus the press to a bet on a hot table) Or they ask for the press to complete the bet.

This was your first talk to me, but it’s quite clear to me that you have a need to “win” a post on a board despite having absolutely no clue of what you’re discussing.

So, you “win”. Good job.

//hands over “cretin of the year” award.

Another craps point was missed: It’s slower. He said, "if you want to lose money at the slowest possible rate, play blackjack using what game experts call “basic strategy.”

It’s true craps odds are better when you take the behind-the-line odds into account. In addition to that though, craps is just plain slower. A $5 bet may be gone in 20 seconds, but it could also last for 20 minutes. Compare that to the rapid fire pace of blackjack. Craps takes a long time to settle a bet, so you lose money at a slower possible rate than with blackjack.

Wrong forum. The Pit is thataway.
In poker, does the house get a percentage of the pot at the end of the hand? What percentage is typical?

And where can I find out what some of these terms mean? (“Press,” “stroke,” “vigorish.”)

Expressboxman: First, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, we’re glad to have you here.

Second, however, please be aware that these are moderated boards and that personal insults directed against other posters are NOT permitted. Chronos was neither insulting nor “cretin” but was asking about your credentials and explanation of what you posted.

These boards are dedicated to “fighting ignorance” which also tends to mean that we are not always accepting of statements that are made without evidence, cites, or credential. Hence, Chronos was questioning your flat-out, unsubstantiated statements…which, by the way, include some rather jarring ideas (that the blackjack dealer can play for you, or that the dice-guy will hand out money). That’s pretty much the way we operate.