[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
Well, in my case, no, I do just fine with vanilla sex too and like it fine. Seems a moot point to me.
Here’s what I think. I think conservative posters don’t like sexual bondage because it’s about sex and they don’t like discussions of sex unless they follow within very narrow, proscribed limits. I think liberal posters don’t like maledom/femsub sexual bondage because it’s too much like old-fashioned sexism to them. Tends to create an atmosphere of intolerance.
[/QUOTE]
Ok on the first part, still not my concern. I agree, it is basically a moot point.
I think on the second part, it is not a dislike of sex specifically, but rather a dislike of TMI threads. I would be more likely to read one of your bondage in movies threads than the “enjoyment of farts” or “Thank Og for Nose hair” type threads.
On the Liberal side, are you really sure they would be any better with a Femdom that posted like you use to? I see a kernel of truth in your theories, but not the majority of the truth.
[QUOTE=Zoe]
I was one who spoke in opposition to you. How did I “shout you down”? Was my voice louder than yours? Was I given more space in which to post? Was I given special privileges?
[/QUOTE]
You insulted my age. You insulted my profession when you asked for my work experiences and you ignored any point I made that made your argument. You then turned around and listed more and more hypotheticals (like below) that “prove” everything is so unequal.
[QUOTE=Zoe]
You have a right to your opinion, but you don’t have a right to your own “facts.” Take a look at the movies that are showing in theaters currently. How many list a female as the main star first? How many list a male first? I haven’t looked to see, but I know what the usual fair is. Movies predominately about women are in such shortage that there’s a special name for them – “chick flicks.” Yet there are usually several movies out that are predominately about men. That doesn’t look like the real world, Justin
[/QUOTE]
Bolding mine.
We are smack dab in the middle of the summer movie season. A time when explosions reign supreme and barrel-chested action heroes blow up shit real good while the audience awes at the spectacle. These movies have always been the main domain of male stars. Arguing against that is like asking why more men don’t star in so-called “chick flicks.”
Oh, and for the record, MOVIES ARE NOT THE REAL WORLD.
[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
Well, I think it’s kind of irresponsible and wrong to go around saying you “perceive” someone to be into nonconsensual in real life when you’ve got absolutely no evidence to back it up.
Well, I do make a distinction between what I see in movies and on TV and real life. I do not see how this makes me creepy. I think it makes me sane.
[/QUOTE]
I can’t help my perceptions. I’m trying to let you know that what you perceive to be intolerance of bondage may in fact be uncomfortableness with your level of interest in bondage.
I’m a liberal woman with feminist leanings who has no problem with consensual bondage - I’ve done it before, I’m pretty darn likely to do it again - and I suspect that MOST SDMB posters have engaged in consensual bondage at some point - as kinks go - its a common one, easily done by anyone with a necktie or two in the closet and nearly risk free when there is trust. A long ago previous boyfriend was pretty darn conservative, but had no problem with bondage. However, I’m left with an uncomfortable feeling with your level of interest in bondage and I recognize from previous threads that I’m not alone. Since you are left with the perception of intolerance - I’m wondering if its something in your delivery.
No, movies are not the real world, but they reflect the real world and our fantasies. I can’t think of any time of year in which movies that focus on women come close to the movies that focus on men.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
This is interesting, I do find Evil Captor’s postings about bondage to be TMI or even ‘deviant’, but who are you to say, that it is strictly a voluntary choice for him? Maybe this is the only way he can get sexual gratification and as long as it is between consenting adults, why should you or I care about the deviant part of it?
[/quote]
Who said I do? I don’t care what consenting adults do so long as they don’t scare the horses. Now explain to me why I have to be interested in the discussion or be respectful of a “deviancy” I don’t share. You yourself say you find EC’s postings TMI. If you don’t care about the “deviant” part of it, what exactly is your point here?
That’s hilarious! YOU say EC’s postings are TMI. YOU refer to them as “deviant.” And you accuse ME of “being closer to a person who considers homosexuals to be deviants” than to a tolerant person? The hell? The person employing the term deviant is YOU. The person equating homosexuality with deviancy is YOU. And you want to imply that I’M intolerant? Ballsy much?
If you understand that being bored by other people’s hobbies is not the same as intolerance, kindly explain on what basis you accuse me of “looking down on EC” and say I am akin to those who consider homosexuals deviants. And in light of your own feelings about EC’s proclivities – because remember the person throwing out the word “deviant” is you, not me – kindly explain how you can accuse ME of “looking down” on EC (which I never did) without being a big honking hypocrite yourself. I really would like you to explain this, because the more I consider your post the less hilarious I find it and the more it pisses me off.
[QUOTE=burundi]
No, movies are not the real world, but they reflect the real world and our fantasies. I can’t think of any time of year in which movies that focus on women come close to the movies that focus on men.
[/QUOTE]
You don’t watch too many of those “Oscar Bait” movies do you? Weepy, boring dramas as far as the eye can see. Many of them starring women.
I’m joking of course, but only slightly.
The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of movies that star women and plenty that star members of both sexes equally. Then there’s something like Transformers, which features more men than women in its cast, but it stars giant robots.
[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
I’m not sure whether or not homosexuality is a choice, or whether or not interest in sexual bondage is, either. Seems a moot point and a bit of an evasion, to me.
[/QUOTE]
You say the Dope is more tolerant of homosexuality than of bondage. I say that if that is true, it is appropriate because homosexuality is not a choice but engaging in bondage play is. What, exactly, is it that I’m supposed to have evaded?
I don’t find your particular obsession to be entertaining or interesting. I think it’s boring, over-sharing, and a bit creepy. I have never popped into one of your discussions to say so; in fact, i don’t read those discussions at all. (See above re: boring, overshare, creepy.) So I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking for. That bondage be given the same respect as homosexuality? It won’t be by me, ever, because I don’t consider them the same thing.
My idea of “tolerance” of sexual practices is don’t make me listen and I won’t judge, m’kay? I am not interested in hearing the details of how anyone, gay or straight, is getting his or her rocks off, unless that person is about to climb into bed with me.
So it isn’t just that conservatives don’t like conversations about any sex except within “narrow, prescribed limits,” it’s that some people don’t like explicit conversations about sex at all.
I will be completely tolerant of your desire to be paddled if you are tolerant of my desire not to hear about it. I’m less inclined to refrain from challenging the analogy of bondage to homosexuality, because I think it’s BS.
[QUOTE=Jodi]
Who said I do? I don’t care what consenting adults do so long as they don’t scare the horses. Now explain to me why I have to be interested in the discussion or be respectful of a “deviancy” I don’t share. You yourself say you find EC’s postings TMI. If you don’t care about the “deviant” part of it, what exactly is your point here?
That’s hilarious! YOU say EC’s postings are TMI. YOU refer to them as “deviant.” And you accuse ME of “being closer to a person who considers homosexuals to be deviants” than to a tolerant person? The hell? The person employing the term deviant is YOU. The person equating homosexuality with deviancy is YOU. And you want to imply that I’M intolerant? Ballsy much?
If you understand that being bored by other people’s hobbies is not the same as intolerance, kindly explain on what basis you accuse me of “looking down on EC” and say I am akin to those who consider homosexuals deviants. And in light of your own feelings about EC’s proclivities – because remember the person throwing out the word “deviant” is you, not me – kindly explain how you can accuse ME of “looking down” on EC (which I never did) without being a big honking hypocrite yourself. I really would like you to explain this, because the more I consider your post the less hilarious I find it and the more it pisses me off.
[/QUOTE]
Simple, I generally avoid posts about Bondage, gay sex, ladle sex or straight sex.
It sounded like you were separating **EC’s ** interests into a different category that straight or gay sex. That was my read of your post. You are also reading too much into my post that is not there. I am not saying you are intolerant. I am challenging your position that **EC’s ** interests are any different from any other sort of consensual sexual interest.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
It sounded like you were separating **EC’s ** interests into a different category that straight or gay sex. That was my read of your post.
[/quote]
I am separating the voluntary sexual activities of bondage from the sexual orientation of homosexuality. If I had been talking solely of gay sex, I would have said so.
No, I’m not. YOU describe EC’s hobbies as “deviant” and “TMI.” YOU say that “some people” consider homosexuality to be “deviant.” Then you interpret my post in light of these concepts, which YOU imported into the discussion. So to the contrary, it is YOU who obviously read quite a lot into MY post that wasn’t there, and I did not appreciate it. If you want to view the issue in terms of “deviancy,” go right ahead, but do NOT imply that I have EVER looked at it in those terms myself.
Then you don’t have a very good grasp of what it means to be homosexual. Sexual orientation is not a “sexual interest.”
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Seconded, if that makes someone intolerant, then so be it.
[/QUOTE]
Thirded. I have no problem with bondage, it just gets fucking tiresome when you inject it into every goddamn thread you participate in - same goes for discussions of porn (softcore or hardcore). Other people’s obsessions get boring real fast unless you share them, and the sexual nature makes it even more off-putting - not because we’re prudes, but because your fantasies are your personal fantasies, and unless we’re the ones who are fucking you, we don’t need to hear about them. They do nothing for us. I’m sure there are boards where you can talk about this shit all you want without annoying the rest of us.
[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
I think the Dope is intolerant of sexual bondage, much less tolerant of it than of, say, homosexuality.
[/QUOTE]
I think that to measure that, we would need to go back to the first fifty, or so, OPs and hijackings on the topic and see how the TM responded before the issue became one of being tired of the repetition and then moved on to becoming a mean-spirited joke about one-trick-pony type posting. If the earliest posts on bondage were immediately the focus of contempt or calumny, you might be right. However, if the current attitude is wrapped up with all the other issues and bad feelings that have come out, then there may be a bit of confusion regarding exactly what is tolerated or not.
[QUOTE=Jodi]
I am separating the voluntary sexual activities of bondage from the sexual orientation of homosexuality. If I had been talking solely of gay sex, I would have said so.
[/QUOTE]
See Below:
**EC ** compared his interest not being tolerated to the toleration of homosexual activity. You appeared to make two points on this subject. One I agreed with and one I did not. You basically said not having an interest in reading his interest is not a form of intolerance. I agree. I think you are correct. I think EC was wrong about this part. I think I said as much.
You also seem to imply the **EC’s ** sexual interests were not the same a homosexuality. I disagreed as I feel any consensual sexual interest between adults should all be view on the same basis. So I feel **EC’s ** interests are the same as any others and I I would rather not read about them, especially when any mention of sexual interests appears out of place in a thread. I have failed to run into cases where EC has done this recently, I remember when he did seem to be doing it too often.
You are correct; I don’t have a good grasp of this. I do not see the difference between orientation and interest.
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird]
Thirded. I have no problem with bondage, it just gets fucking tiresome when you inject it into every goddamn thread you participate in - same goes for discussions of porn (softcore or hardcore). Other people’s obsessions get boring real fast unless you share them, and the sexual nature makes it even more off-putting - not because we’re prudes, but because your fantasies are your personal fantasies, and unless we’re the ones who are fucking you, we don’t need to hear about them. They do nothing for us. I’m sure there are boards where you can talk about this shit all you want without annoying the rest of us.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have to say, this particular proclivity doesn’t turn me off any more than any other…I’m just not the type to sit around and discuss sexual fantasies with people. When a gay guy comes on the board and starts being descriptive of what he likes to do with his partner, I will be just as “intolerant” of that as I would be of anyone else discussing such personal details.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Yeah, I have to say, this particular proclivity doesn’t turn me off any more than any other…I’m just not the type to sit around and discuss sexual fantasies with people. When a gay guy comes on the board and starts being descriptive of what he likes to do with his partner, I will be just as “intolerant” of that as I would be of anyone else discussing such personal details.
[/QUOTE]
As usual, I think you just said, what I have been trying to say, better than I can.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
You are correct; I don’t have a good grasp of this. I do not see the difference between orientation and interest.
Jim
[/QUOTE]
Here’s the difference as I see it. A person’s “orientation” tells us which (very) broad category of people they select those they would be willing to have a sexual relationship. Just because I know some guy I know is in a relationship with another guy, I am not inclined to start thinking about what they actually DO together. (Or, a guy and a girl, for that matter.)
“Interest” is a different kettle of fish. When you get into sexual interests, you are talking more about what someone likes to do with another person in bed…sometimes, in very specific terms. This, in my opinion, is TMI!!!
ETA: You will also notice that a person can have an orientation AND a particular sexual interest…or more than one sexual interest. This, to me, shows that they are not the same thing.
I think a lot of people do believe that sexual orientation and sexual interest can overlap. I’ve heard discussions among people in BDSM of whether being into BDSM makes you “queer” and whether it’s something you can come out about, as with being gay.
Personally, though, I do think it’s wise to tailor what you talk about to your audience. Some people aren’t into hearing sex talk period–whether you be gay, straight or whatnot, and I think that’s fair, as Sarahfeena articulately put it.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
You are correct; I don’t have a good grasp of this. I do not see the difference between orientation and interest.
[/QUOTE]
Are you serious? There is IMO a big difference between pursuing a sexual “interest” in the privacy of your own home and attempting to live life as an uncloseted gay person. Sexual orientation is a matter of who you are attracted to in the broadest of terms – men, women, both. Sexual “interests” in things like BDSM is a matter of how you attain sexual gratification.
Try to tell any one of our many gay members that being gay is exactly the same as liking to be spanked as see how they feel about it. Honestly, if you seriously see no difference then it’s very unlikely I would be able to make you see the difference – because it’s a big honkin’ difference.
YOU say EC’s postings are TMI. YOU refer to them as “deviant.” And you accuse ME of “being closer to a person who considers homosexuals to be deviants” than to a tolerant person? The hell? The person employing the term deviant is YOU. The person equating homosexuality with deviancy is YOU. And you want to imply that I’M intolerant? Ballsy much?
or straight sex.