I have more than one foot out the door here, it bums me out because I really liked this place, but lately, I’ve found it toxic and depressing. Like any community, the SDMB has always had its issues, but until recently, the good outweighed the bad. The most recent example is the thread on misogyny that got shut down by** engineer-comp-geek.** (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=880206)
engineer-comp-geek shut the thread down because it had derailed by the usual cast of suspects (SlackerInc, Shodan, UltraVires). So, instead of telling the usual cast of suspects to stop derailing the thread, it gest shut down. The usual cast of characters are able to shut down discussions they don’t like through their trolling. **Elbows **(https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=880385) tries to point this out and her thread is locked. So there you have it, the misogynists have decried that the topic of misogyny on the Dope is forbidden, and the mods through their fecklessness enforce this policy.
And so here’s the question that has been pestering me for quite a while. Do the open misogynists and racists of the Dope not care that they are killing it? Do they not value it at all? Soon the only people left will be the racists and the misogynists and the whole thing will just kind of stop. Won’t you miss it when it’s gone?
How about not treating a message board as a place to crusade against all the social ills that plague the world? That only leads to disappointment. Because either a) you will fail or b) you will create a bubble that in no way reflects reality.
Engage with whom you find it productive or interesting to engage with. I find it productive to engage with those I disagree with. It helps me grow as a person.
It’s not about a crusade or anything like that – it’s about whether this is a nice and welcoming place that sanctions assholery when it drives people away. No one has to be here – they choose to come here. And some folks don’t want to come here if they think there’s a high chance they’ll come across objectifying or hateful language even in threads that aren’t about objectification, misogyny, bigotry, or similar topics. I’d rather that women will see this as a welcoming place in which objectifying language is sanctioned, than a place in which misogynists and objectifers see as welcoming in which many women would prefer not to spend their time.
I value the presence of these women (and those who feel similarly) far, far more than the perceived rhetorical freedom (or even presence) of those who routinely use objectifying/misogynistic/hateful language. I hope the board leadership and management does too.
If a poster or a thread annoys me I treat it the same way I treat people in real life who annoy me: I avoid them. There are still lots of good, smart, entertaining folks on the dope, and if you stick with them, you won’t feel your blood pressure rising. Maybe it’s because I got old, but suffering fools is not in my job description any more.
ETA I hope the dope is not dying. I don’t really think it is but everything does die eventually. Hope it outlives me, anyhow.
I can’t reconcile that as a goal when there is a whole forum here dedicated to hostility, perversion, and unhinged rants. In many of the other forums it’s open season to ridicule people based on age, religion, ideology etc. This is not a high minded place. So whining about a Ginger vs Maryann thread or whatever seems hypocritical.
Some may say don’t participate in the Pit. Well I say if a particular thread isn’t to your liking avoid it. Or, perhaps, if you really want this place to be welcoming then eliminate all the hostility. I don’t see that happening because being selectively hostile is a welcome feature.
One reason those threads in ATMB are always closed is that the hypocrisy and inconsistency is pointed out.
I think it would be much, much worse without the Pit as a sort of release valve for all the harsh emotions people sometimes have. There are indeed lots of posters who don’t take part in the Pit. But more so, people can calibrate their own feelings and expectations when taking part in discussions – I’ve seen very few complaints about even hateful, objectifying, and misogynistic language when confined to the Pit – rather, the complaints are about such language are almost always about the other forums. People know what to expect in the Pit, and I think they’re generally okay with it. It’s when that stuff shows up outside of the Pit, when we think we’re just having a polite and reasonable discussion, that it bothers folks, I believe.
A release valve? Are we kindergarteners? And complaints about people using the Pit? Well, Huey found out there was a secret rule when he responded to hecklers.
Anyways, you are making it sound like the so-called objectification occurs in a completely random thread unexpectedly. The latest drama doesn’t fit that. It was a the original post in a thread with the word confession in it. Scan it and if it’s offensive then don’t participate.
You know iiandyiiii I’d be for this whole forum being moderated as GQ is. However, people desire these other forums, the Pit included, to exist so other topics can be discussed. However, a very vocal and entitled minority want these forums to be moderated in a very particular manner and get quite upset when their personal playground is not played in by their “rules.”
Rules quickly abandoned when something or someone triggers their petulance. Look at ATMB we have posters telling others fuck you or calling people trolls. Posters who know the rules but don’t care. They think they are above the rules. Yet, if someone asks a burning question of the day like who’s hotter Betty or Wilma all hell breaks out with multiple threads in multiple forums on multiple boards. Seems a bit farcical to me.
I think it was unexpected and entirely unnecessary. It really can be fine even to discuss “sensitive” topics like libido and having desires that don’t comport with decency and the regular functioning of politce society… as long as it’s done without resorting to objectification, misogyny, etc. I think that would indeed be an interesting topic. And I think it’s fine to ask TPTB to try and clear such discussions of objectifying and misogynistic language.
I think you’re vastly overstating some of this, as well as missing the frequency of objectifying language. I think changes to society are driving these feelings, but that can be a good thing, not a bad thing – it’s not hard to imagine, were there a widespread internet and forum similar to this one in the mid-19th-century, similar contention between an “old guard” who regularly used racist language and younger folks who demanded such language be sanctioned. I think that’s what’s happening now, and painful as it might be to some, it’s ultimately a very positive thing, both for this community and the wider one.
Even when threads don’t get locked, I just stop visiting those threads once the usual cast shows up and proceeds to take huge shits in them. You forgot a couple in the star cast listing like HD and WF.
Fine, moderate all forums like GQ, get rid of the pit, and then no one needs to feel uncomfortable because things will stay factual with polite language. Until we get the pan fried semen threads.:eek:
I don’t think so. How much work is it to enforce a general set of board wide standards? Probably much less than enforcing 20 sub forums each with different standards. Basically, you want the message board to reflect your personal values. I say too damn bad. It’s not your board.
Ultimately, I think that’s the true source of consternation. The realization that this board does not belong to a particular clique and that manipulation of mods, threats, and social pressure including bullying posts in the Pit don’t work to fundamentally change the nature of the board into a reflection of a subset’s values is maddening.
Actually, I think the moderators mostly do a good job, and I’m just hoping for some relatively minor changes in the direction they’ve already stated they want to go in. I’m fine with the overall plan of moderation of this board – I just think the execution needs some work.
To the broader topic raised by the OP, the issue is what the community wants its standards to be. If certain posters are sucking all the oxygen out of a thread, then we need to deal with that. I think that means we need to report issues when we see them, and we need to make personal choices about whether we engage with posters who are threadshitting, or whether we’re going to work around them. Some of these posters are like fire, and we’re giving them oxygen.
I would say, however, that I have a strong preference for NOT losing good posters because a handful of negative ones are ruining things.
On a broader level, this touches on a core issue that was mentioned in two threads - one from months ago, and one from recently. First it was someone arguing that some ideas are so offensive that they should not be permitted even if written politely, and then recently it was the complaints about **nate’s **“when I see an attractive woman, i think…” thread - who were arguing that despite **nate **not having flagrantly violated the rules, his speech was still unpleasant to many posters.
So the elephant in the room that I think has gone unaddressed for months is this: Do we allow offensive speech in the Dope if it is written in a polite-sounding way, or do we ban offensive speech because it is by its very nature offensive, no matter how politely written?
How many times have posters received warnings about commenting on Trump’s penis? How many people are banned for calling him “small hands”? Zero I bet. Has Mandy Jo ever condemned anyone for this type of male body shaming? I doubt it.
Talk about hypocrisy. That’s the real death of Dope. When the rules are applied uniformly, there can be better discussion.
