How and why did the word Shiksa come about?

[Tia3child]

Happy Hollidays BTW

I saw Seinfeld one night recently and it was the “Shiksa” episode. What I want to know is how did this word come about? And is there a male version for the word. Seeing ass its a derrogatory term for a female I want to know what is its equivalent in English?

All I really want to know is how the word came about. The other stuff is secondary.

[whistlepig]

Leo Rosten, “The Joys of Yiddish”

"The feminine of ‘shaygetts’. From Hebrew: ‘sheques’: blemish.

1. A non-Jewish woman, particularly a young one.

2. (as used on occasion, by Orthodox Jews) A Jewish woman who is not Orthodox, observing, pious, does not keep a kosher household, etc."

It’s not always a derogatory term, sometimes it’s just a label, like “chicana”.

Whistlepig, one of the 6 people in Montana who can laugh at a joke about moyel without having to be told what a moyel is.

“. . . And if you rub it, it turns into a briefcase.”

[Tia3child]

Oh Great now I have to look up Moyel…

[Bryan_Ekers]

*Originally posted by Tia3child *
**Oh Great now I have to look up Moyel… **

Oy. It never ends, boychik.

[Lure]

And if you rub it, it turns into a briefcase.

I always heard it as suitcase.They must think small in Montana
For those without a yiddish dictionary,think of the guy who liked his job at the elephant house,because of the tips.

[TeaElle]

*Originally posted by Tia3child *
**Oh Great now I have to look up Moyel… **

The moyel (mohel?) performs the bris.

[whistlepig]

*Originally posted by Lure *
I always heard it as suitcase.They must think small in Montana

Hey, I’m goyim in the land of cowboy hats. Do you have any idea how long it’s been since I told that joke?

Now the moyel with the grandfather clock in his office window, that one I can tell!

[Lure]

Do you have any idea how long it’s been since I told that joke

I know if ** Gene Baylos ** were still around,he’d probably still be telling it.I must have seen that guy 1/2 doz.times between the Catskills and Poconos in the sixties,he used it every time.

[jmalin]

It’s not always a derogatory term, sometimes it’s just a label, like “chicana”.

Wrongo. It might not be meant as a derogatory term by the speaker, especially if they’re not Jewish. But it’s derogatory by nature. It was certainly meant to be derogatory by the people who invented it.

So don’t use it.

What do you want me to put in the window, lady?

[samclem]

Wrongo. It might not be meant as a derogatory term by the speaker, especially if they’re not Jewish. But it’s derogatory by nature. It was certainly meant to be derogatory by the people who invented it.

Could you give me some idea of the “people who invented it” and what time frame?

Do you think that a Jew using the term simply to describe a young Gentile woman around 1900 meant it to be derogatory?

[whistlepig]

*Originally posted by jmalin *
**It was certainly meant to be derogatory by the people who invented it.

So don’t use it. **

Cite? Rationale?

And please;

1. offer another derivation cite;

2. explain and discuss how usage in Yiddish/popular culture since the 1920’s has essentially made current usage of “shiksa” the equivalant of "blonde’ and/or “zaftig”.

:wally

[Sternvogel]

*Originally posted by whistlepig *
**Leo Rosten, “The Joys of Yiddish”

"The feminine of ‘shaygetts’. From Hebrew: ‘sheques’: blemish.**

This site says the root of shiksa is sheketz, which refers to vermin:

http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/19-06.html

It’s not always a derogatory term, sometimes it’s just a label, like “chicana”.

Again, the quoted FAQ disagrees. In a similar vein, question 19.5 covers shvartze and goyim.

[China_Guy]

*Originally posted by whistlepig *
**Hey, I’m goyim in the land of cowboy hats. Do you have any idea how long it’s been since I told that joke?

Now the moyel with the grandfather clock in his office window, that one I can tell! **

Y’all need to read the Kinksta’ aka Kinky Friedman.

[whistlepig]

*Originally posted by Sternvogel *
**This site says the root of shiksa is sheketz, which refers to vermin:

http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/19-06.html

Again, the quoted FAQ disagrees. In a similar vein, question 19.5 covers shvartze and goyim. **

Nice cite, until you scroll to the disclaimer at the bottom of the page which says you should not trust the accuracy of any information on any of the pages, ask a rabbi.

And who but you brought up shvartzes?

As for goyim, they annoy him.

Is there a rabbi in the house?

[whistlepig]

*Originally posted by China Guy *
**Y’all need to read the Kinksta’ aka Kinky Friedman. **

I’ve read Kinky. He’s good at the paragraph level, but a fairly lousy writer in the long form.

But that’s just my opinion. The man has done wonder with lyrics and song titles.

[Theobroma]

Ya know what they say…

The Rabbi gets the fees, but the mohel gets the tips!!
[rimshot]

[jmalin]

*Originally posted by whistlepig *
**Cite? Rationale?

And please;

1. offer another derivation cite;

2. explain and discuss how usage in Yiddish/popular culture since the 1920’s has essentially made current usage of “shiksa” the equivalant of "blonde’ and/or “zaftig”.

:wally **

Uh, I don’t have any derivations at hand. I am not debating the derivation of the term. It is Yiddish, and it does mean non-Jewish woman. Another post cites a derivation from “vermin”.

I was told by my rabbi that it’s definitely a derogatory term.

It’s usage in Yiddish has always been derogatory, but remember that Yiddish and the culture that surrounds it is neither gentle nor politically correct. From my personal experience with Eastern European Jewish immigrants (all of my family), they are opinionated, stubborn, and plain-speaking. One might indeed say this of a lot of Eastern European culture.

I should also note that they’re extremely intelligent, sophisticated, cultured, and (usually) liberal.

Shiksa, along with a lot of other Yiddish, has been adopted naively by American popular culture. Most people don’t know what it’s derived from, so they assume it’s a funny slang term.

[zev_steinhardt]

The word shiksa is a derivation from a Hebrew word sheketz meaning “disgusting.” A form of the word is used in Leviticus 11:43

My vote is that it is derogitory. As such, I don’t use it.

Zev Steinhardt

[twelfthsign]

Not sure what Shiksa you’re referring to, but Shiksa, derived from Sanskrit, is now used in Hindi, entailing ‘knowledge’.

[whistlepig]

*Originally posted by jmalin *
**Uh, I don’t have any derivations at hand. I am not debating the derivation of the term. It is Yiddish, and it does mean non-Jewish woman. Another post cites a derivation from “vermin”.

I was told by my rabbi that it’s definitely a derogatory term.

It’s usage in Yiddish has always been derogatory, but remember that Yiddish and the culture that surrounds it is neither gentle nor politically correct.

Most people don’t know what it’s derived from, so they assume it’s a funny slang term. **

You mean like
:wally ? (Whistlepig grins)

Sounds like a good explanation, thanks.