I think a lot of disagreements on this depend on how bad you envision it’ll get and what form the fascism will take. Like, I could absolutely see certain flavors of Christian fanaticism definitely putting a direct hurt on the oligarchs’ wallets and ability to remain breathing. I could see Trump confiscating from and jailing “fellow” billionaires who even look like they’re thinking of crossing him, or just out of jealousy; he actually did so during his presidency. There are plenty of paths that end up literally destroying the national and world economy.
So I think your view will depend on what you think the most likely bad scenario is. There are certainly many arrangements the 0.1% would happily agree to, but there are a lot that would leave them significantly less rich at best and hanging from a gallows at worst.
Is it though? Every election we are always told “This is the most important election of ALL TIME!” and its usually two choices that nobody really wants, yet we are forced to pick one of the lesser of two evils.
Its been this way literally forever and I dont see why it would change anytime soon. The American Dream scheme only works when people have the illusion that they can be a winner. If you take that away, the whole system collapses and the rich people cant get anyone to do anything. You can only push the boundaries so far. The system relies on constantly dangling a carrot infront of someone and having the illusion of choice. It doesnt work without it.
This claim doesnt even make sense. Its like saying Trump would put a Koch brother in jail because he said Trump was fat. The Koch brothers are the whole reason your there in the first place. There isnt any universe to where your putting your boss in jail.
The profitability of elections will mean that the corporate masters would want to keep up the pretense of a choice that is really “corporatism that tells you to sit straight eat your veggies” vs. “corporatism that tells you you can chill out”.
Sorry, I should’ve said “he showed his willingness to do so during his presidency” with Bezos.
As for the later point with the Koches, I’ve mentioned it too in the past. They installed him to make them more, not (necessarily) to ban abortion, and certainly not to start a civil war and crash the very systems they benefit from. That’s my entire point: just because they put Trump in as a useful idiot doesn’t necessarily mean they support everything he and his idiot followers want.
Basically, when I imagine the most likely worst case scenario, it’s one in which the US is a pariah state (or at the least unable to consume or produce on the level it does now), the dollar is worth more as kindling than as currency, and the global economy has been completely and permanently disrupted. That’s why I ask myself, how would current billionaires benefit from any of that? I don’t see many ways in which they generally could. That’s why I at least question the level of their support going forward.
Others may have a different view of what’s likely to occur, and they’re perfectly legitimate. Thus my earlier point. Basically, I find a lot of what’s happening now, a lot of what the rabid far right base wants, to be incompatible with the comfortable capitalism the oligarchs want, and it at least gives me pause.
Yep exactly. The irony of capitalism is that in a way, its a check to authorities since the whole system is built to make as much money as possible and authoritarians get in the way of that. Another reason the US would have a hard time being authoritarian is that too many countries have too much of a vested interest in the US for one race/group of people to have power for a very long period of time. Since the US is a melting pot and doesnt really belong to one race of people, there will always be lots of competition over power. Even if evangelical christians have some power, there are too many other races in this country who will fight against them for that power, making it almost impossible for one group to retain power unlike in more homogenous countries. The other irony is the US being a country of immigrants and this country being built on immigrant labor, that kind of bites the authoritarians in the butt. They dont wanna do the hard work, but are shocked when immigrants come over to do it and they cant force their own beliefs down their throat.
I try to look at things from an economic stand point since at the end of the day, the rulers of this country all have one thing in common and its the worshiping of the all mighty dollar. The politicians like to throw in all of these social causes or cultural wars or whatever the flavor of the month is, but at the end of the day, its just all about the money.
Why are you bringing Russia up when that country is not only extremely homogeneous, but has never had anything resembling a democracy in its entire history? Your trying to compare apples to oranges here.
And yes the white man has had power for long time, but considering that we have minorities in congress and had a black president and have a black vice president that is a woman, things have changed.
For a while, and to some degree still, the inmates ran the asylum. The GOP had been stirring up hate and resentment and fear for years before Trump using dog whistles. Trump came along and said the quiet part out loud. At first, republicans thought this would lay their whole agenda bear and it would sink them - that the American public would reject the sort of hatred and ignorance and fantasy that they were trying to hint at through their propaganda network if it were spoken so openly. That’s why you had plenty of “neverTrumpers” who thought he would be the end of them.
But when it became clear that the American people were indeed that ignorant and stupid and petty and childish and evil, and that there would be no great pushback, control of the party started to shift from the powerful and rich cynically attempting to manipulate the republican base to the loud and proud true believers of the party who really believed this shit. The GOP had essentially created a runaway train that they couldn’t control and for a while, the inmates largely took over the asylum.
Now, I suspect, the rich are trying to walk a fine line of not alienating this new era of open hatred and ignorance and post-truth but regaining the controls behind the scenes exactly to avoid the scenario where everything comes crashing down (including their bank accounts).
Authoritarianism doesnt work with capitalism the slightest. You cant get a bunch of skilled workers and get them to do a job right if your not fulfilling some of their requests. Why do you think that no major companies exist in Russia? They cant get anything done. Its hard to make money in a dictatorship and since corporate america is so big, they dont want a dictatorship.
And Im not sure what you mean by anything not changing. Yes there are some white guys that are becoming desperate and trying to rig the system, but they are losing. The immigrants that they brought here to do grunt work are getting smarter and are out working them. Its not a winning battle for them at all.
We are talking about authoritarianism, not dictatorship.
They are not losing. Many are making millions, some are even making billions. They’ve just stripped the right to abortion in multiple states. They are winning, and loving every minute of it.
I do not agree with anything that you just said. You seem to have your mind made up that republicans are going to take over the world and there is nothing we can do but sit on message boards and wait for the end of our existence, even though Ive provided many reasons why that is just not going to happen, especially if you go out and get involved in the political process.
I used to work on political campaigns and everything your saying seems to be very out of touch with reality. Have you ever knocked on doors and talked to potential voters? Have you actually tried to become involved in the process? Its not as hopeless as your making it out to be.
…I have not argued that the “republicans are going to take over the world.” I haven’t argued that “there is nothing we can do but sit on message boards and wait for the end of our existence.”
I would appreciate it if you could refrain from inventing arguments for me. If you take issue with anything I said, please feel free to address the things I actually said.
So whats your actual point then? Your talking about how we can become like Russia (which I already explained that we cant since we are completely different country structurally), how we are ran by white men (which we arent), and that the republicans arent losing (which yes they win every 1 out of 10 elections on average, but 1 out of 10 is not good odds and its impossible to win 100% of elections).
I just dont understand what your even trying to convey. I already made it clear that there isnt going to be a fascist authoritarian regime in the US. The evidence just isnt there even though you want to believe differently. And if there was ever somehow a fascist take over, I highly doubt you would be able to predict it. It wouldnt be that predictable.
Only 10% of American elected officials are Republicans???
This is going to require a cite.
Also,
{…} Despite white men comprising only 31 percent of the population, 97 percent of all Republican elected officials are white and 76 percent are male. Of all Democratic elected officials, 79 percent are white and 65 percent are male {…}
…I didn’t actually say you could “become like Russia.”
You asserted that “capitalism was a check on the authorities.” This isn’t the case. You asserted that “the whole system is built to make as much money as possible and authoritarians get in the way of that”, but this isn’t true. Authoritarians and capitalists can work hand-in-hand. Authoritarians simply get out of the capitalists way, and help them to make more money. I didn’t argue that the US could “turn into Russia.” Simply that Russia demonstrated that what you asserted wasn’t something innate.
But you are.
And they aren’t.
I’m simply conveying that you are wrong. Nothing more. There is no hidden meaning, or message. You’ve got it wrong. End or story.
You are entitled to express your opinion.
You haven’t presented any evidence. Just made assertions.