He’s probably the next leader when Trump finally dies and he’s much more dangerous, younger and smarter than Trump. He’s also completely amoral. What he says becomes the official party doctrine and thus our reality, so, like the statements made by mouthpieces in any authoritarian state, residents of that state have to take it seriously.
This “becomes our reality” crap has just got to stop. Call it what it is every time it pops up-An officially sanctioned lie.
I think denying what it is, is part of the problem. The just asking questions crowd are trying to pretend this is a one off event in a stable democracy. It’s not, it is part of a program of violence intended to intimidate and terrorize. America is post democracy and we need to stop,acting like it’s not.
This kind of fatalist bs is just as likely to make fascist dictatorship a reality than thin blue line bootlicking.
We are a fascist dictatorship why should the local DA attempt to prosecute this murderer? He works for the regime he’ll never see justice.
Why bother voting. We are in a fascist dictatorship elections don’t matter.
We are heading towards a fascist dictatorship but it’s not inevitable, giving up and saying we are there already makes it inevitable.
I don’t think that there are too many problems that can be solved by self-delusion and wishful thinking. This thread is a great demonstration of that; people are framing the discussion around a frame by frame analysis of the single incident: why was she there, which way was her tire turned, where was the agent standing; etc, etc. It ignores the systemic reasons that created the conditions for this incident.
This kind of discussion ignores the fact that his happens a lot in America and that it is part of a program designed to terrorize. The sooner we accept what kind of society we are living in, the sooner we can try and do something about it.
America is the kind of place where masked secret police gun down civilians. What now?
You have two options:
- Try and use the democratic lawful means, that still exist and are at least partially still functioning, to bring the masked secret police murders to justice. There is no guarantee of success but has a non zero chance of actually bringing them to justice and weakening (albeit very slightly) the regime
- Moan about how we are in a fascist dictatorship already and we are doomed to being shot by masked regime thugs, and then do nothing because we are already in a fascist dictatorship. Which has a zero chance of bringing anyone to justice or hurting the regime in the slightest.
Option 2 is enabling fascism just as much as flying a thin blue line flag
I think complacency is a large reason America is where it is and leads to a lot of half measures that do nothing, but create the impression that something is being done, when in fact these Potemkin Village vestiges of democracy actually support the authoritarian regime. Every strongly worded letter from Chuck Schumer lets them maintain the fiction that America is a democracy, just like Russia’s elections give Putin a fig leaf of legitimacy.
There needs to be a greater sense of urgency and people need to realize that their complacency makes them complicit in the crimes of this regime.
If you have not cut Trumpists out of your personal life, including relatives; you are part of the problem.
When you decide “just not to talk politics” with your Trumpist acquaintances, you are complicit.
I doesn’t matter what I as an individual think and there’s nothing I can do to substantially change the forces at play.
I am simply trying to eek out the last bit of pleasure in my ever contracting world.
Perhaps younger, more energetic people can make an impact.
But as an old, tired person this is where I am.
I think America is post democracy, and has been since Trump won his second term. I am not at all optimistic that the midterms will bring about any change to an autocratic country, and I think the Democratic nominee in 2028 is more likely to go to prison than the White House, or what’s left of it.
That said, I hope I am wrong. I get out in the streets and protest. I will certainly vote, and I encourage others to do the same.
At the same time, I am pursuing citizenship in another country. I cannot stand the thought of living in a dictatorship for the rest of my life.
Right so ensuring the Republicans lose the mid terms by a landslide is complacency that supports the regime. But not talking my MAGA uncle will make the regime crumble and fall. Got it! Makes sense, this seems like a very sound strategy that will defeat Trump in no time at all 
No where did I say not to vote. Talking to your MAGA uncle does do actual harm to America unless you are challenging him on his fascism in each conversation. By maintaining cordial relations with fascists you are tacitly endorsing their fascism by helping normalize it and betraying fascism’s victims. An unwillingness to make any sacrifice, or experience any discomfort, like cutting off your fascist uncle, is exactly the kind of complacency I’m talking about.
But why would you? It’s all just “Potemkin Village vestiges of democracy actually support the authoritarian regime.” Why would you support the regime by voting, or supporting the Democrats or get involved in the Democratic process at all. I don’t want to support the authoritarian regime!
Because it is the equivalent of giving a post on Reddit a thumbs down vote and about as effective. It is easily done, but I don’t think that it will have any real impact. Real impact will require sacrifice and it is clear a huge swath of people who didn’t vote for Trump are just not willing to make any sacrifice.
I think what is getting people upset is that option 3 seems to be in the vast majority:
- Pretend that nothing bad whatsoever is happening, and think it’s all business as usual, and if you ignore the creeping fascism hard enough, it will just go away by itself, or maybe someone will do something about it.
It’s these folks that need to be taken by the collar and shaken until they wake up.
I tend to agree, and the “since Trump won his second term” is important, at least in regards to the most basic tenet of democracy – free and fair elections. As I’ve said in various threads since 2016, as horrible as it would be, there would be some measure of comfort in knowing that Trump won (either time) because of some deep electoral shenanigans…but the truth is (IMO) much worse: a plurality of voting Americans actually like this asshole.
(I base this conclusion partly through my experiences helping run elections at the local level. Yes, there have been plenty of voter-suppression actions and such by Republicans – see, e.g., the long thread from around 2012, when elucidiator (with me mostly his cheerleader) debated with Bricker – but, with our locally-based US system, it’s actually hard to “rig” elections to the degree many suppose. Again, the truth is worse. A huge number of Americans really are sociopathic, willfully ignorant assholes).
I don’t deny that the true threats to US democracy are getting worse now, and anything could happen in future elections. We are close to being “post democracy” at least in the sense of the executive branch exerting far too much power, and the other two branches mostly just bending over for more.
I see that thread was still active as of 2024. (Sadly, neither luci nor Bricker are still active here).
In searching, I stumbled at this other thread from 2012, equally relevant to the topic at hand:
I would add to that statement, that these assholes are aided and abetted by a support network of craven Americans who refuse to hold them accountable. Every time someone says I just don’t talk politics with my MAGA friends/family, they are consciously deciding to look the other way. Authoritarianism relies on this large percentage of society who simply won’t take the slightest stand if it is the least bit inconvenient.