How are you preparing for the coming fascist authoritarian regime?

Politics & Elections
21

Of course. But the shit storms are already breaking out. New Mexico just reported that they’ve had angry protesters and threats against electors in their recent primary.

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — A standoff over the security of voting machines between a Republican-leaning county in New Mexico and Democratic state officials that threatened to erupt into a wider political crisis was defused Friday after local commissioners voted to certify their election results.

Commissioner Couy Griffin was the lone dissenting vote, but acknowledged that he had no basis for questioning the results of the election. He dialed in to the meeting because he was in Washington, D.C., where hours before he had been sentenced for entering restricted U.S. Capitol grounds during the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection.

“My vote to remain a ‘no’ isn’t based on any evidence. It’s not based on any facts,” Griffin said, nevertheless requesting a hand recount of ballots. “It’s only based on my gut feeling and my own intuition.”

22

There is absolutely no rational way for this to happen. The divide is between densely populated urban areas and the surrounding countryside. And voters of both kinds live in most areas. If you think the answer is partition, then look to the 1947 partition of India in which tens of millions died and hundreds of millions were displaced. And afterward you’ll be left with hostile states that hold different pieces of the economic system. It would be a disaster. How are blue areas going to survive without the food grown in red areas, for example?

23

Obviously, I don’t think it will look anything like our first CW; no national armies lined up against each other on a battlefield. You may see states violently go to toe-to-toe however.

I think a lot of a 2CW will include:

  1. Increased domestic terrorism, targeting people of color and non-Christian organizations. Counter attacks from the other side.
  2. Political assassinations (or at least attempts) of Democrats from lowest levels of government up to the highest. Possibly counter attacks from the other side.
  3. Governors activating National Guards to quell violence. But also in some cases (think Ron DeSantis), to go after oppositional groups. (I mention Ron because he’s already declared a cold war with Georgia if they elect a Democratic governor. Can you imagine a governor willing to declare “war” with a neighboring state because they elect someone from a different political party than his? Can you imagine what this governor is capable of doing with a military at his disposal if widespread protests break out in his state? Hell, this may be the way Florida’s “cold war with Georgia” goes hot; an act of military “liberation.”)
  4. The U.S. military may become divided.
  5. At some point, federal laws and the safeguards of our democracy may look like unconstitutional oppression to the red-staters, and they may just ignore them. At that point, our Constitution’s worth is only as a museum piece. Should courts rule against red states or conservatives acting badly, I see red state legislatures and governors start talking about (and acting on) seceding. At that point, I say let 'em go.

Again, I think we’ve got some pain in our future, but I’m hopeful that something better will come from it all. I’m just sick to death of these fucks and really just don’t want them running my country. Let them have their own. It may be time for the Great Divorce.

24

The ‘rural’ folks may be quite surprise at how many armed ‘urban’ folks live among them (to dance around metaphors)

25

I think there could be (but honestly to try and predict if or how it can happen is not really possible). My guess: I think red states would go one way, blue and purple states another. I would imagine a mass migration happening, which itself would be a gruesome nightmare but part of the process.

26

I know you said it probably won’t help, but I am actively looking at homes in the Cape Town area, or maybe Stellenbosch (we just got back from there, and I loved it). Our money will go a lot farther there, the climate is beautiful, and we could sell our current home, buy an equivalent place in South Africa, and likely pocket at least $500k. Maybe work part-time at a winery.

Yeah, that’s how pessimistic I am. South Africa looks more appealing many days.

27

Portugal would be a good option as well. I’ve been looking at that for my retirement in 5-6 years anyway.

28

So Green Card or equivalent? You can’t just buy a ticket and stay.

And I don’t think we should run.

29

Yeah, that’s on our radar, too. More English-speakers in South Africa, though. I think better SCUBA diving as well. :slightly_smiling_face:

30

I see it as mostly one sided, where the ruralites come into the cities with guns and bombs, perform terrorist activities, then retreat to the countryside to see the cities burn.

31

And die because they can’t get FOX ‘News’ or really process or ship their food.

32

They would so get their asses kicked. More people in cities are armed than they can imagine. Not to mention being so vastly out numbered. I know they imagine those of us who live in cities are a bunch of spineless pussies but they really have not idea how tough we are.

33

And there are plenty of people that live rural that would have a bit of a disagreement with them.

34

Not really much faster; it took about a decade from the Beer Hall Putsch to Hitler being appointed Reichskanzler (and shortly thereafter promoting himself to the newly created Führer) but the rise of Nazism wasn’t a sudden thing, nor was the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) unique in being a fascist moment in Weimer-era Germany. Of course, the American Conservative movement turned to proto-fascist methods of appeal quite a while ago, traceable back to then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich (who has been the philosophical leader and propaganda advisor ever since) and arguably going back to Barry Goldwater, but then German fascism didn’t emerge from nothing circa 1923; it was a continuation of a long line of fabricated German nationalism and appeals to the ethnic superiority of the Teutonic ‘race’ with a bunch of 19th Century pseudo-science behind it.

You are absolutely correct about the astonishingly close parallels, even in some of the personalities involved and the novel use of technology and social disruption to spread the idea of fascism. That the current government is so ineffectual in stopping and persecuting the leaders of what was, despite denials, an insurrection clearly dedicated to overturning a legitimate election is a harbinger for how little it will take to push the United States over to the demagoguery already embraced by still-fawning Trump supporters. The only real possibility that Trump will not clutch the 2024 Republican nomination for president is if he chokes on his fried chicken first, and even if he does he has set the stage for a movement of would-be demagogues even though none seem quite as skilled as deftly manipulating his followers to agree with whatever gibberish comes spewing out of his chocolate cake-hole as he somehow does.

I do not look forward to the next few years, and I don’t see any plan that is going to short circuit this movement into fascism amidst a general global trend toward authoritarianism. I’m reluctantly forced to agree with those suggesting that liberal democracy may have had its day, particularly in the face of existential threats such as climate change, soil depletion, ocean acidification, and the proliferation of nuclear weapons and effective delivery systems. People want to feel safe and secure against such threats to physical and food insecurity, and dictators provide the appearance of that even while the drain the lifeblood of a nation away to secure their own position.

Stranger

35

I’m going to go at it sideways, because while I think if efforts to date succeed (and sure is looking that way), we aren’t nearly as likely to have a hot civil war. I think it as likely (more honestly) that if things continue the way they have been that after a de-legitimized Republican seizes power, that each state will largely go their own way, chosing to ignore orders / not enforce orders from the top. Purple states will be too internally divided to do anything, majority states will be fighting along urban/rural lines and other divides, and the military itself will be divided (if less so) but probably just a bit too vulnerable to it’s supply chains and fear of local disruption, especially in light of a large number of deserters giving support to either side based on personal preferences - so they’ll wait for ‘clear orders’.

None of which will matter, because if it gets to this stage, the nationwide economy is going to collapse. Supply issues? Oh heck yeah, interstate commerce will be one of the early losses. Who goes to work when they’re not sure they’ll get paid, if they need to pay taxes to a corrupt government, or worried their neighbor is going to burn down their house for having put a Biden flag up in a prior election? So, rather than a Civil war with 2 sides, I suspect we’ll just collapse into a failed state, with a half dozen or more loose alliances, none of which can do too much because they’re all to damn heavily armed (all it takes is 1-2 nuclear weapons available and even the smallest faction can play the North Korea Game HOME EDITION).

At this point, the military might try a coupe to restore order, but I think it will be too little, too late, as trust will be long since lost, but with a popular enough leader, it might work. Still leaves us will a dozen small wars going on and an utter collapse of societal norms.

As for preparing, I’m too old to fight, too young and poor to retire/flee, and so if it gets to the end-game, I’ll probably be riding it out in my deeply purple state until one of the above issues ends up getting me killed.

I mean I could try to utilize the Right to Return, and I do have (quite a lot) of Israeli family, but don’t see things there being particularly better in these circumstances, as once the US collapses, things will escalate quite quickly there as well.

36

Then they are a martyr to their cause.

I’m not saying that they will succeed in razing the cities to the ground, just killing people and causing large amounts of property damage, like the terrorists they are.

You are for some reason imagining a straightforward battle, rather than the terrorist tactics they would employ. How are we going to kick the ass of someone who leaves a bomb in a church, or an abortion clinic? How are we going to kick the ass of a suicide bomber? How are we going to kick the ass of a mass shooter who is willing to die?

Sure, we may be able to capture, kill, or prosecute some of them, but how much damage would they do first?

37

Well, there won’t BE any abortion clinics…

38

I have this vague idea for blue state America to organize a tax strike. Given that the most conservative parts of America are absolutely dependent on federal support, we could try exerting some power through controlling the purse strings. I have no idea how to organize it and it would have to be a mass effort, or the few participants would be punished heavily.

Barring that, I support a managed dissolution of the US.

39

People said the same thing when Trump was elected, and also back during the George W. Bush administration. The vast majority of them are still here.

40

Again, this is not possible. Order and chaos are the only two options.