I’d just like to say that I think you’re awesome, monstro. You don’t sound angry to me; you sound sensible and right.
And if you have to pussyfoot around a bunch of imaginary friends off the internet, where do you get to put your foot down?
I think I’ve got you all beat. My GF and I currently share a 450 sq ft apartment. It is tiny, but we’ve made it work with reasonable harmony. I have few possessions though, and don’t like having a bunch of crap so living minimally works for me.
We are counting down the days until our lease is up, though. I’ve lived in many different places and situations and I’d say the minimum space needed is 300 sq. ft. per person.
Monstro, you’ve gone on about your parent’s televsion quite a bit in this thread. Big televisions are cheap these days. Some people read, some watch tv. So what. It seems the big-screen TV is a symbol of your contempt of your parent’s lifestyle.
You seem very passionate about it. Let it go.
My house is a 3 bedroom house on two floors. The outside measurements are about 20’ x 25’
monstro you’ve done a good job in making the situation look much less cut and dried. I don’t fault you for your position, and I could continue in the “people make mistakes all the time, even financial ones”, but it wouldn’t amount to much, and there wouldn’t be a satisfying conclusion to the debate.
People have to be responsible for their own care and it doesn’t sound like your parents are making the decisions that would make your ultimate care of them any easier. I can think back to many times where there was a subtle “this isn’t financially” right feeling that had me and the wife do things differently (like getting rid of those ARMs a good two years before the bubble burst.)
But a last statement in their defense: raising three kids on less that ample pay, for a very very long time…I can see where they might feel they’re entitled to a little splurging afterwards. Yeah, you may not be happy with the education they didn’t provide you…but they DID manage to instill you with some fiscal responceability, FWIW.
What I’ve taken from this thread is that houses in the US are fucking huge.
[quote=“Unintentionally_Blank, post:86, topic:576272”]
monstro you’ve done a good job in making the situation look much less cut and dried. I don’t fault you for your position, and I could continue in the “people make mistakes all the time, even financial ones”, but it wouldn’t amount to much, and there wouldn’t be a satisfying conclusion to the debate. [/qute]
What do you do when you see people making the mistakes over and over? Just look the other way? That’s what I usually do, and that’s what I have been doing with my parents.
It’s almost like a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t thing. I’m damned if I tell my parents that they’re spending too much money. How dare I judge them for spending their retirement! Don’t they deserve 20+ years of “freedom”? It’s not MY money they’re spending, so why am I butting in? Etc., etc. But if I don’t say anything and pretend everything’s peachy, and then the tsunami wave catches up to then, I’ll be the evil daughter for being mad about their predicament. Regardless, the problem will be dropped in their children’s laps. It would be even if they lived in a small house with few possessions, but at least that scenario wouldn’t require having to get rid of two houses (did I mention one of them is in a downward-spiraling subdivision and the other is still in the “bad” part of the town?). It just seems to me that their financial decisions are not conducive for a comfortable retirement in the long haul.
[quote\But a last statement in their defense: raising three kids on less that ample pay, for a very very long time…I can see where they might feel they’re entitled to a little splurging afterwards. Yeah, you may not be happy with the education they didn’t provide you…but they DID manage to instill you with some fiscal responceability, FWIW.[/QUOTE]
They raised four of us. And they probably do feel entitled, and I suppose–if I am angry about anything–it’s this: Why didn’t they feel entitled to raise their children in a nicer neighborhood, one that they could still afford? (I have no real beef with the neighborhood we grew up in, btw. But it was not child-friendly and actually cost the family more in the long run, with my father’s long commutes and frequent break-ins). Why didn’t they feel that their children were entitled to college educations? Why did my mother spend 12 hours a day working for less than minimum wage to save other people’s children from poverty, while her own school-aged children would come home to an empty house and have to sneak to the candy store because we weren’t allowed to eat anything in the house? Why did their sense of entitlement not kick in until AFTER they didn’t have children to raise? That’s what sticks in my craw. I know my father’s salary in the early years was very different than what he earned towards the end of his career, but there was a good chunk of time, like when my twin and I were coming up, when he was making a very decent living, working in the richest county in the state where he could have plopped his family and allowed his kids to attend neighborhood schools like most children do. So yeah, they deserve something. I just don’t know if they “deserve” a ginormous house that can’t even properly heat and cool because it’s so big.
I don’t think my parents’ taught me fiscal responsibility, unfortunately. They were blessed that their youngest children were very low maintenance and never asked for much, except a car (that they shared) when they turned 16 so they could drive to school. I got a job at 15 because I wanted to go to Europe on a school trip, and my parents didn’t want to pay for it. Perhaps that was a lesson–getting my own job. But it wasn’t like I had a choice. Without an allowance to save or a desire to babysit, it was either work or not do extracurricular things at school. I am grateful for the violin lessons my mother obtained for my sister and me. Of course, she likes to constantly throw this up in our faces as if violin lessons were something we asked for, but nonetheless it was still an act of selflessness. A taste of luxury that the other kids in the family didn’t get to receive. I am grateful for a million other things too. But I don’t think my parents taught me how to scrimp and save. There was an embarrassing time when my mother had to don a Domino’s pizza uniform (back when they were made out of paper) because she had gone crazy on credit cards. Yeah, every time I make a purchase, that memory haunts me.
They were role models on how NOT to be, when it comes to money. And I can’t completely fault them. For all their education, they did not have role models themselves, having grown up in poverty.
That was my point…but I was being too subtle. To teach by example, you don’t necessarily have to set a GOOD example.
Sorry! My six-year-old daughter and I live in a 323 square foot apartment. Luckily, we spend a lot of time outside and we don’t have a lot of stuff. We manage just fine. To be honest, I think I would hate to live in a big house - I can see myself becoming a slave to its upkeep and expense. I’d rather spend my time doing other things and worrying about other stuff.
As a poor person, I often have to be careful about how easy it is to judge people’s “excessive” consumption; my reaction to consumption is often, upon reflection, predicated on the fact that people are making choices that I don’t even have the option to make. “I can’t believe they wasted so much money on that, when it’s clear that they don’t need it, just look at me!”
I think that often this sort of thing becomes nothing more than mandating aesthetic choice (or financial necessity) by imbuing it with moral/ethical qualities.
I’m a single guy with a girlfriend. We don’t need much space; a kitchen big enough to do some cooking and baking in, and a separate room for musical instruments/office. And some dry storage space for some boxes, brewing equipment, bikes in the winter, etc.
I don’t know what our sq. footage is currently; it’s a 4 bedroom apartment (and there are 4 of us here), somewhere around 800sq ft., which includes 4 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, bathroom, and a hallway/laundry room. There’s also a basement. The layout is kind of crummy, but certainly size-wise it’d be quite comfortable for 2 people.
I could comfortably live in a 450 square foot studio. I don’t plan on meeting someone and getting married, or on having children. A combination living room/bedroom would be great since I spend all of my time in my bedroom right now anyway (since I’m renting a room in someone else’s home). I don’t have a need for a large, complicated kitchen. Just a stove, sink, fridge, and a few cabinets. The bathroom can be small since I’m the only person using it and I don’t do that whole makeup or blowdrying thing.
I like the idea of smaller lots with smaller homes, and I’ve always preferred small quirky spaces to large, prefab ones. 600 square feet would be more than I need.
Growing up, our family of 4 lived in a 1400 sq ft 4BR 2.5 BA house (no basement though) on 1.2 acres. That seems like a pretty standard house in the suburban Northeast, until you start getting closer to cities.
Because she’s “poor”. When you don’t have money, everyone else’s spending habits becomes a critical statement of their morality. People are “jerks” for having a 3 thousand dollar watch or eating $200 steak dinners every weekend.
No, I don’t think so unless it’s a finished room.
Can I ax you a querstion? On what basis are you calling me poor? Quotation marks or no, I have never referred to myself in this way since I was in grad school. When I actually was pretty damn close to poor. So I’m curious where you are coming from with this accusation. Is it because you can’t really see any other reason why I’d be against having a big house and a bunch of stuff? You’re a business-type guy, right? I thought ya’ll are inherently supposed to be able to see “out of the box”.
Not that it matters, but I am not poor. I don’t make six figures and I don’t drive a new car. But I’m squarely middle-class, as most environmental scientists are.
FWIW, I judge people as “jerks” based on what they do, not on what they have. For instance, a jerk would be a guy who accuses someone of having an inferiority complex simply because it’s the only narrative his pea brain can come up with. But a person who has a 3 thousand dollar watch is not necessarily a jerk. He or she is just someone who has a 3 thousand dollar watch.
Also, where in this thread have you found me slamming rich people? True, I have slammed a couple of people. But these are people who I personally know to be living beyond their means, and they are not rich. I thought that was okay, bitching about irresponsible people. Especially irresponsible people who you are related to you. That’s bad now? Well then, I guess it’s time to recalibrate my morality meter. Or not.
I prefer not.
I love this, it’s brilliant!
One thing you have to keep in mind when talking to a realtor or builder is that “impossible to sell” is really shorthand for “has such limited appeal that it’s going to take a really long time to find a buyer.” Which sounds like a perfectly reasonable description of what monstro is proposing to build. It sounds lovely for a certain kind of buyer, but that kind of buyer is pretty darn thin on the ground, which means when the place does go on the market it’s likely going to sit there for months and months with her paying for it and her new place/nursing home/whatever. It took us over a year to sell our old house when we moved, and that shit bites some seriously huge donkey testicles. Granted, expenses on such a little place will be much lower, but it’s still something worth mulling over before finalizing plans.
What someone actually needs in terms of space is very little. People can and do live in half a 12x16 room sharing a bathroom with 30 other people. It’s not what you’d call overly pleasant, though.
In my experiences, even a finished room, if it’s below grade, doesn’t count in the square footage. So a walkout basement, if finished might while a fully below grade basement wouldn’t. Obviously, local regulations may vary.
My daughter’s ex-boyfriend from the south of England (small house) was convinced she lived in a mansion. We don’t.
That’s how it is in Alberta, too. Since virtually all houses have basements here, you usually get double your square footage than what is shown in the listings.
ETA: That is for bungalows. Two storeys, you still get extra footage, just not double.
I was told the calculation of square footage varies from place to place, and even from assessor to assessor! But according to the “rule” where I live, any livable space would count. I think that would rule out an unfinished basement.
As far as selling the place goes, I know it will be difficult. I wasn’t born yesterday, and I’ve actually done a lot of footwork (literally) finding a location where I can maximize its market appeal. But I’m not building to flip it, nor do I envision moving or expanding anytime soon. My life story is not writ in stone, I know, but I tend not to plan for the “couldawouldas”, but rather for the “more-than-likelies.” More than likely, I will live in this house for longer than 15 years, or after it’s paid for. And if things change and I can’t find an immediate buyer, I am not afraid of finding a reputable property manager and renting the thing. Maybe no one will buy it, but I know someone will rent it.
In my will, I will donate the house to a local non-profit that would welcome having such a property. What a great way to attract passionate crunchy-granola interns. Low-cost, eco-friendly housing! There’s also a parachioal school just up the block. Maybe the house could be used as a way of attracting a fresh energetic teacher who’s just starting out, who would appreciate not having to balance student debt and high rent, plus all the psychological demands a teacher has to deal with. I’ve also considered the assisted living place across the street. Where do family members stay when they visit their loved ones, I wonder? Nearby hotels can be expensive. I wonder if I could donate the house to the assisted living facility and they can turn it into a hospitality house for family members who live far away and want to visit their loved ones for a couple of days. The place could charge a flat fee per visit to cover utilities, taxes, insurance, and maintenance. But it would still be a cheaper price than what hotels charge (and make for a nicer stay too!) It could be marketed as a perk for doing business there. Spend a few hours with your loved one, and then have fun in Richmond the rest of the time. A hospitality house could assuage some of the guilt associated with putting a parent in a home, I would think.
I’m not worried about what will happen to my house. I’m very creative.