How can I drive the Nurburgring?

[Robot_Arm]

For those of you who aren’t familiar with it, the Nurburgring is a road-racing course built in western Germany in the 1920’s. The original course was more than 14 miles around and more than 100 turns. It is to car racing what Wagner is to opera. The German Grand Prix was held there until the 1970’s; there was just no way for it to meet the safety standards that were being established.

It is now a public toll road.

I want to drive it. I’m going to be in Germany this fall. I’ve learned the course fairly well on a simulator (Grand Prix Legends). But I will need a car. Do any of the car rental companies in Germany allow you to take a car on this track? Do the officials there check your registration and such before they let you on?

I can’t be the first out-of-towner to want to do this, but I don’t know what arrangements have been made. If any of my fellow dopers have been there, or know what hoops I’ll have to jump through, I’d appreciate the info.

[Mycroft_Holmes]

Well, according to the official website http://www.nuerburgring.de/ (sorry, I couldn’t find an English version), you can drive any car on the “Nordschleife” during the official opening hours. The opening hours seem to fluctuate (they can be checked at the website), but every Sunday they are open from 8:30 AM to 7:30 PM. The cost is 14 Euros for one lap in a car. There are discounts if you want to do more laps (five laps = 56 Euros; six laps = 76 Euros; 12 laps = 143 Euros.

Some of the rules are listed in English in this pdf. Also, note the small print at the bottom which says: “Es gilt die StVO (Strassenverkehrsordnung)”. That means the normal traffic rules (like speed limits, etc.) apply. The only difference is that all traffic is one-way, so you can pick your own line around the turns without having to worry about oncoming traffic, but you are only allowed to pass slower cars on the left.

The website only says that vehicles with temporary plates and vehicles with more than 95dBCA of noise emission are prohibited. I don’t see why you wouldn’t be allowed to take a rental car.

[Mycroft_Holmes]

I forgot to add that the Nürburgring is again an official Grand Prix course, but they don’t race on the old “Nordschleife”. Since Germany already has a Grand Prix (at Hockenheim), and the Nürburgring is conveniently close to France, Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands, they call the race at the Nürburgring the “Grand Prix of Europe”. Michael Schumacher won the last one on May 30th.

There are also several racing and car-safety schools at the Nürburgring where you might even be able to race a Formula 3000 car or other high-performance race car (depending on how much you want to spend and how much time you have). You should be able to get more information by emailing the “Tourist Info Zentrale” of the Nürburgring at tiz@nuerburgring.de. I’m sure someone there will be able to read and write English.

[Mycroft_Holmes]

Well, I did find some more helpful information (in English this time): here and especially here.

Please note the following (from the second link):

While the official fatality figures are very low, this is because they only count those who are declared dead on-scene: if they are still working on the victim at the time the helicopter takes them out, they are not classified as a fatality. I was on the scene of an accident where one victim was declared dead at the trackside while a second was declared dead in the helicopter shortly after take-off: that went down in the stats as one death and one injury. According to an ITU nurse at a local hospital, they get 2-3 ITU admissions a week from the Ring, about half of whom don’t survive. That’s more than one death a week.

:eek:

[Mycroft_Holmes]

One last thing (I wish I could edit posts): According to this page (which has very useful information also), there is NO speed limit on the Nordschleife.

[Robot_Arm]

Thanks for the info, Myc. Some of it I already knew, although my German is not good enough to pick up everything from their site.

But things like this:

@Mycroft Holmes

According to an ITU nurse at a local hospital, they get 2-3 ITU admissions a week from the Ring, about half of whom don’t survive.

make me think that the car rental companies would go to some lentghts to make sure I don’t do that in one of their vehicles.

I’ll see what I can find out about car rentals in Germany. Man, I hate those fine-print contracts even when I know the language.

And if I do get to drive there, I’ll be careful.

[awldune]

A friend of mine drove a rental car on the Nurburgring a couple of years ago. I seem to remember him saying that a lot of rental places in that area make you sign a statement saying you won’t take it on the ring.

[No_Disguise]

If all else fails, you could always take the Ring-Taxi http://www.ringtaxi.se/start.asp

It’s a BMW M5 Driven around the track at ludicrous speeds (under 9 mins/lap). The car has gained lots of notoriety.
Here’s an interview with Sabine, the lovely driver.

What is the funniest/strangest moment she experienced or seen on the Ring - passenger reaction, interaction with other drivers, most dangerous experience, etc?

“I had two very small Japanese guys in the Ring-taxi, both sitting in the back seat. First their necks got longer and longer and after the first corner they hid behind the front seats because they were so afraid. J I can write a book with stories like that.”

Sounds like fun to me!

I’d personally rather take a ride in the ring taxi than drive myself. She’s been lapping that place for years, and I’d be too scared to drive on it too quickly.

[Dog80]

I’ve heared that GM is going to build a Nurburgring-replica somewhere in the US, so they can test their new cars there instead of transporting them to Germany. I can’t find the article though

[commasense]

Expect to pay some bucks (well, euros) for the car.

Earlier this year I looked into renting a car while in Germany just to cruise for a while on the no-speed-limit autobahns. I wasn’t near the Nurburgring, but I wanted a car that would be fun to drive fast. Despite ads and Web sites that claimed to have exotics available, I wasn’t able to find a rental company that had Porsches (my first choice) for rent in Berlin (where I was staying). Or if they did, they were so expensive I didn’t even bother to write it down in the notes I made at the time. E.g. $800+/day

The lesser cars I found available were more expensive than I had expected, in part because you often had to pay for a minimum of two or three days. For example:

BMW 520i: $392 (3 days)
Audi TT: $299
Audi A6: $250
VW Passat: $174 (3 days)

Also, many had low mileage allowances, e.g. first 500km free, 0.50 euro/km after that. And don’t forget about the high price of fuel in Europe!

I eventually gave up because I didn’t feel that the cars I could afford would be fun enough to make it worth the expense and trouble. (You may be thinking, What’s wrong with a BMW 520i? It was more than I wanted to pay, but I was going for it until I found out that its 0-60 time is 9.1 seconds! Ugh. The other cars above are all under 200 hp, and my regular car is closer to 300 hp.)

If you still want to look into it, I found that Autoeurope.com had the best prices of the three or four agencies I checked out. They represent Avis in Germany. It’d be a pisser if they explicitly prohibit you from driving on the Ring, though.

Good luck, and let us know what you find out.

[Robot_Arm]

No Disguise, I probably will take the Ring Taxi, too. Taking it fast with someone who knows her way around would be amazing. But this is the place where Fangio won in '57, Niki Lauda still carries scars he got there; for a fan of European racing, this is hallowed ground. If there’s any way I can drive it myself, I will.

commasense, yow, I didn’t realize it would be that expensive to rent a car in Germany. But this may be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, I have to find a way to do it.

Dog80, just buying the land for something like that would be an undertaking. No one will ever truly duplicate the Nurburgring.

[Mort_Furd]

@commasense

Expect to pay some bucks (well, euros) for the car.

The lesser cars I found available were more expensive than I had expected, in part because you often had to pay for a minimum of two or three days. For example:

BMW 520i: $392 (3 days)
Audi TT: $299
Audi A6: $250
VW Passat: $174 (3 days)

Rule number for for renting a car in Germany is to never rent a car in Germany. Go to an american travel agency, and make your rental arrangements through them - preferably from an american company with international branches like Avis or Herz.

The boss of the company I used to work for over here did that all the time. He’d call a travel agency in the US and have them make the arrangements when he had to fly somewhere in side Germany and rent a car.

[Robot_Arm]

Excellent tip, Mort. Thank you.

[commasense]

Those were the prices I was quoted here, before going. Not walkup prices in Germany.

Avis (here) offered a Passat for 99 Euros/day. Autoeurope.com had the same car for the price I mentioned above: $174 for three days.

Also, I was looking for exotics, which limited my choices somewhat. I’m sure you could get cheaper cars, but do you really want to tool around the Nurburgring in one of those little Swatch cars?

[Robot_Arm]

The car does matter, but it doesn’t have to be a lightning-fast exotic.

I have an MGB (currently in storage, but it was my daily car for thirteen years), and that would be a great car to take to the 'ring. It wouldn’t set a lap record; but I could always sense what it was doing, it rewarded all the right instincts and techniques, and it was a lot of fun to drive it well.

For a rental, I need something with rear-wheel drive and enough power to at least be noticeable. I think my first choice would be a 3-series BMW, with a six-cylinder engine. A Porsche would be spectacular, but I have no experience driving them and I’ve heard that when the do start to lose control, they lose it in a very big way. I don’t know if I need that much of a worry when I’m out to have fun.

[Robot_Arm]

Since I know everyone has been anxiously waiting to know what happened…

The worries were for naught. Two weekends ago, I rented a car and drove the Nurburgring.

And it was fantastic.

I rented the car in Nuremburg. (Which, being a couple hundred kilometers from the 'ring, may not have aroused their suspicions.) You know how when you rent a car, all the ads and forms say something like “this car or similar”? I wound up with a Mercedes C220. Turbo-diesel with an automatic transmission. Not my first choice.

But not a bad car. And the computer navigation system was very helpful (once I figured out the controls in German to switch it over to English).

You know what’s weird about driving on the Autobahn? You get used to it. When I first got up to 160 km/h, I thought “I’m going 100 miles per hour on the Autobahn!” and I was being very careful and hyper-alert. Twenty minutes later, I’m like “Hey, we’re only doing 160, get out of the way up there!”

I went to the 'ring museum first. I like it. They have Fangio’s Maserati from his win in '57, and a Ferrari 250LM, which I believe to be one of the prettiest cars ever made and I just wanted to see it once, in person, before I died.

Good gift shop, too.

All the Nurburgring signs take you to the modern track, and you have to pay attention to find your way to the Nordschleife. When I got there, it was much more low key than I expected. (I think it’s safe to say that the last weekend in November is not the height of the season around here.) The road and everything seemed a little damp, like it had drizzled early that morning. But it didn’t rain the rest of the weekend and the road never seemed to get any drier, either.

There were a few other drivers, maybe someone went out on the track every five minutes or so. There was one building where they sold tickets, and another with the Grune Holle (German for “Green Hell”, Jackie Stewart’s nickname for the 'ring) cafe. A little office/pavillion for the 'ring taxi (which wasn’t actually around that day) and three lanes with ticket readers to get onto the track and that was about it.

I bought my tickets, drove a few laps, had a snack, drove one more. Even though my rental car was not exactly what I would have chosen, I passed a Porsche on my last lap. It ain’t the car, it’s the driver.

Stayed in a 450-year-old inn in Adenau that night. The bed was exactly six-feet-and-three-quarters-of-an-inch long. I know this because I’m six-foot-one. Saw a couple more cool museums and hit 210 km/h on the autobahn on the way home. Hell of a good weekend.

And since this is GQ…

Yes, you can take a rental car on the Nurburgring.

[hammos1]

@Robot Arm

You know what’s weird about driving on the Autobahn? You get used to it. When I first got up to 160 km/h, I thought “I’m going 100 miles per hour on the Autobahn!” and I was being very careful and hyper-alert. Twenty minutes later, I’m like “Hey, we’re only doing 160, get out of the way up there!”

I had exactly the same experience, also in a rental Mercedes C220.

I decided to see how fast the car could go, so on a quiet section of autobahn just outside Stuttgart, with a slight downward slope, I floored it and got up to 195kph. I don’t think the car was capable of 200kph, but in any case, that’s well over 120mph- I didn’t really feel the need to go faster.

But the strange thing is- when we got to a busier section, I slowed down to match the speed of the traffic. It felt like we were cruising along at a gentle speed, until I looked down and saw we were still going at 105mph.

[maleinblack]

Robot Arm,as a big fan of Formula 1 racing I can understand the excitement you must have felt. It was good to know that you had loads of fun. You have any pics of the musuem or the track?

[Robot_Arm]

A couple of problems with posting pics, mal.

First, when my camera was made, Jackie Stewart was still driving F3. So, digital pictures are right out.

And second, it really wasn’t a day for taking pictures. It was totally overcast, and the tracks, old and new, were practially deserted. (Now that I think about it, it might have been a good day for black-and-white, taking pictures of some of the historic parts that are still left, maybe with a bit of the modern grandstands or tower in the background.) It’s just the sort of place where what makes it fascinating isn’t anything you can show, but the knowledge you take with you about what has happened there.

I don’t think I took any pictures at all at the track. I have a few of the Blaue Ecke, the hotel in Adenau, as soon as I have that roll developed.

[spinky]

Can someone post a quick translation of the ring taxi prices? That sounds like fun.