Of course there is. They went to a place where such girls, and no adults (except predators), would frequent. That part should be self-evident.
Again, this is not a place where adults normally go to, so it stands to reason that someone going there is looking for someone who is* not *an adult. And they weren’t targeting 17 year olds, they were specifically targeting younger girls. This is the online version of taking your van without windows to the playgroad at recess.
And once and for all, nobody said thoughts were crimes. Everyone these guys did a whole lot more than think about. They acted, and the first action was seeking out young girls in a chat room.
ModernPrimate, you must be new to Great Debates. Whenever you start a topic here, it is incumbent upon you to deliver cites to your argument. Telling others to do your work for you is considered poor form and ultimately, if you persist in not substantiating your claims, will be seen as not debating in good faith.
You just justified thief and therefor every other crime,
And for some thief will simple not occur. This is my point, you have a weakness and so does that man in that cite. In today’s society he is fucked legally, in other society you would be the one who is fucked for your weakness.
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kanicbird,** this is the Rube Goldberg solution to ending crimes derived from pedophilia and ephebophilia. Kids are reaching puberty younger and younger, and that means interest and participation in sex and all things sexual happen in kid’s bodies. We can warn them, teach them about boundaries and build their self-esteem, but the biological imperative is nearly impossible to squelch.
It is the adults who need to take responsibility for their tendencies, feelings and actions. If they choose to ignore laws, social mores, and make excuses for acting in a sexual, predatory manner towards a child: they should be punished.
Guys, I really don’t think Kanicbird is making a positive claim that the predators aren’t doing anything wrong–I think the intention is just to point out that aside from that, if we want to meaningfully solve the problem, there are deeper issues we’re going to look at. I don’t think one can reasonably disagree with this, but it is, for sure, a much harder problem to think about (and do anything about).
In my opinion both should be expected to change the subject or end the conversation. I have far too many memories of my own teenage years to ever consider teenagers innocent angels incapable of lust, greed, or the desire to harm others. Teenagers are closer to childhood, closer to the sociopathic Id monster that lurks in all of us, and bluntly capable of levels of cruelty that the 33 year old would be aghast at.
Exactly! A 14 year old girl in the throes of puberty is not going to want a boy…she thinks she wants a MAN!
Our legal system has decided that a person under a certain age is not mentally capable of consenting to the consequences that may arise from sex. Therefore the law is that the ADULT in this situation is the one to be held responsible.
With better health care and nutrition, girls are physically able to get pregnant much younger than they are able to successfully give birth and much younger than they are mentally able to care for a child. While in ages past young marriages had their place - the girls weren’t going to be educated in any case and it made sense to have them raised with their husband’s family - those reasons do not apply in modern society.
NO adult man who has sex with a chid has her best interest at heart - or anywhere in his mind. He is interested in his own gratification.
If anyone has a reason against the laws protecting children (I’ll say 14 and under) from sexual preditation I would like to hear them.
No matter. One cannot expect a teenager subject to raging hormones who lacks life experience to make the same mature decisions as a 25+ year old adult. One is the weaker actor here, regardless of behavior and actions. Same power dynamic as a boss sexually harassing a subordinate, as a police officer trading sexual favors for a legal pass, as a judge…etc.
We have laws in each state that plainly state a specific chronological age as the mark of an adult capable of making decisions about his/her body. Arbitrary number or not: we ignore those laws, the adults pay the price.
Who said anything about 25+ year olds? You seem to be making up the rules they use as you go along as it suits yourself. Do you agree we have a point for people who are under 25 then?
He’s just 21 years old himself and he just wanted to take a girl to a party with him.
His sister was outside waiting in the car with her baby. The idea that TCAP says that he was actually going to have sex with the girl while inside while his sister was waiting in the car is just so preposterous… And they were in a role play chatroom when any sex talk occurred. It’s a clear joke.
I think it’s fun to watch in a way. But imagine you are that guy. Imagine that NBC is doing this to you, poking their cameras down on you for this bull**** and you know that the only reason this whole thing is occurring is for their ratings. That’s ****ing messed up. It’s making entertainment out of the justice system.
I disagree the teenager is always (or ever) the weaker actor in the dynamic. The middle aged guy isn’t the one fashion industry caters to and the advertising industry holds out as the ideal of human beauty. Many adults have very little life experience or maturity than the current generation of teenagers. I regularly deal with 15 year old amateur prostitutes more calculating than seasoned out call workers. If the teenager subject to raging hormones cannot be held responsible for their actions, than neither should the former teenager subject to raging hormones. Current statutory rape laws are not about protecting “children”. Teenagers are not children.
Again: states designate a *chronological age *which determines who is, and is not a legal sexual partner. There must be a line drawn somewhere; we simply cannot trust our justice system to take each and incident on a case by case basis. There is no scientific method to measure which actor is more responsible, more culpable. The number is the ultimate decider.
He is 21 years old. Old enough to know what he was risking when he approached an underage girl. One of these two is older and more experienced. He should have known better. A 21 year old should not take a teenager out of the house without her parents’ permission. Get it? She is under the protection of the law and of her caregivers. The 21 year old is a free agent.
He was in a room titled “Florida Romance.” He came in real life to actually see the person he’d been talking to. He came with the stated intention to have sex with her. That’s not role-playing.
You’re defending people who are not defensible here.
You’re kidding, right? This is getting really stupid. Pretty much all teenagers have the implied consent of their parents that they may go out of their house. Even if they didn’t, it would not be illegal for a person over the age to take her. Think about if a 18 year old was going out with a 17 year old.
Even if that were true, he should be charged with taking her out of the house without her parents’ permission, not trying to commit a lewd sex act with a child.
Does she say anywhere it’s without her parents’ permission? No.
Where did he state that he wanted to have sex with her? Where is the stated intention? Chris Hanson doesn’t say that was his stated intention. He completely denies he was coming to have sex with her.
The “stated intention” is in your mind.
I have noticed that a lot of you vigilanties tend to just make up stories and facts to suit yourself as you go along. It might be a little comment here or there, or the way you would use a word, the way you’d push your story through no matter what. You don’t even attempt to be fair, everything that you don’t know you just make up as being criminal by the supposed perpetrator and showing his guilt. I’ve noticed this in people taking the moral high ground in all sorts of things. I think that it’s in part because they think that if they lie then it’s okay because it was “for a good cause anyway, those low lifes should be locked up”, so that excuses their lying and making things up on the spot.
Well let me tell you something:
You are a disgrace and a danger to society. It’s people like you that damage the justice system and maybe it would be a good thing if you were locked up for some time yourself, so you would be treated with the same callousness that others are treated.
ModernPrimate,most of us have been explaining how and why our society sets age of consent laws. If you feel so strongly that legal adults should be allowed to chat with, court, and have sex with legally underage kids, then change the laws to suit your agenda.
Okay I read it and he does mention that, however not his stated intention to have sex right at that moment when he got there while his sister was in the car waiting, which could be farcical.
But it’s true he did ask for something similar at one point, thank you for getting that transcript for me.
Here is the relevant part out of a lot of chat:
freebird_72000 (12:02:18 AM): so do u need a teacher?
diamondinthe.rough (12:02:24 AM): teach what?
freebird_72000 (12:02:57 AM): how to fuck
diamondinthe.rough (12:03:04 AM): lol
diamondinthe.rough (12:03:08 AM): sure
freebird_72000 (12:03:54 AM): ever watched a porno
freebird_72000 (12:04:01 AM): ever seen it done/
diamondinthe.rough (12:04:01 AM): no
diamondinthe.rough (12:04:22 AM): you got porns
freebird_72000 (12:04:27 AM): naww
diamondinthe.rough (12:04:30 AM): oh
freebird_72000 (12:04:40 AM): would u wanna watch?
diamondinthe.rough (12:04:47 AM): a porn?
freebird_72000 (12:04:52 AM): yea
diamondinthe.rough (12:04:57 AM): are they gross?
freebird_72000 (12:05:00 AM): naww
diamondinthe.rough (12:05:04 AM): you got some?
freebird_72000 (12:05:30 AM): naww
freebird_72000 (12:05:44 AM): but we coould make our own
diamondinthe.rough (12:06:03 AM): realy? omg!
However, he isn’t going to her house to have sex with her at that moment.
diamondinthe.rough (1:04:19 PM): Ill leave this on and you can send a message when ya leave, k
freebird_72000 (1:06:07 PM): k
freebird_72000 (1:06:16 PM): get somthin sexy on
diamondinthe.rough (1:06:23 PM): you leavin?
freebird_72000 (1:07:40 PM): in a min
freebird_72000 (1:11:34 PM): we r leavin now my sister is bringin two babys
freebird_72000 (1:11:51 PM): we r gonna go straight to the pool
freebird_72000 (1:12:06 PM): bring a towle
diamondinthe.rough (1:16:12 PM): k
I’m not sticking up for him, however his criminal actions were (if any) what he said the first time in the chat. It had nothing to do with him going to the house.
I would just be interested in what people think about the underage girls who prostitute themselves in Japan. Some lie about their ages to get Johns.
In these cases these girls are proactively seeking sex with older men for compensation.
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Also, what do we think about women who have sex with boys. Somehow I find this less offensive because I am reminded of my own sexual fantasies from middle school (I was hot for teacher as David Lee Roth would say). I personally don’t think that would have been a traumatic experience for me. I would have bragged about it.
Is it our misogynistic nature that prevents us from seeing girls enjoying or desiring it in the same way?
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Shouldn’t we encourage pedophiles to be open about their illness so that we can get them help (shock therapy is known to be effective - though it’s a temporary effect).
To hang out? In the instance of the guy above it was just to take the girl to the party. Yeah I guess many of them might have “tried something” if everything was going okay, but many of them also seemed to just be lured by these girls. When I mentioned earlier in the thread about the multiple persuasive phone calls asking them to come over, someone said something like “wouldn’t that defeat the whole purpose of doing this”, and I think that yes it did, it sometimes puts it into question.
fwiw: I have a similar attitude to the other Dateline “stings” and operations like it… I think that they should just allow law enforcement to do its job. Typically what they’re meant to do in such reality shows is to allow law enforcement to do it and just to tape it on video, like “Cops”. Remember that Chris Hanson and Dateline NBC are there for commercial profit, and they wouldn’t be there otherwise.