How did so many atheists end up here?

[shiftless]

I come here because people use phrases like “sky pixie” and everyone knows exactly what they mean. Here in the God-fearing US of A, disbelieving just isn’t done in polite company and the Christians are not in the least reluctant to point out the disbelievers and to call for them to explain themselves. It’s refreshing to come to a place where one is not only allowed to fail to praise almighty Jesus but one is even allowed to disparage.

I’m sorry that a few believers feel that they aren’t taken as seriously as they would like, I really am, but too many Christians are outright offended if you don’t agree with them 100%, Og forbid anyone actually ask questions. And this is a place for asking questions.

[Contrapuntal]

@Dangerosa

Grownup should also be polite. Which referring to someone else’s cherished belief system isn’t. And once again, “but he did it first” is not a good excuse, especially for someone trying to pull the “they should be grownups” card.

If I believe your cherished belief system is a load of horse crap I will tell you so. Politeness has nothing to do with it. And I’m not using the “he did it first” defense. What I’m saying is that believers have set it up so that the default position is to take what they say at face value, even if it is unmitigated crap, and then to hide behind a charge of persecution when someone calls them on it. Sorry. God is as believable as an invisible sky fairy, and speaking that truth, rather than humoring someone by being “polite”, is the right thing to do.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Bijou_Drains

I’m pretty sure many religious people would say the term “sky fairy” is insulting , it does not matter if you think it’s the correct way to call God. Why use a term that is going to get people upset when there is already a standard word in the English language to use?

Because it’s only fair to unpack what that word really means in a discussion with any pretense to analytical or scientific precision. Basically, it amounts to getting people to define their terms. If they really believe there is a distinction between a “god” and a “fairy,” or “wizard” or any other magical entity, then they should be able to logically articulate what that difference is. If they misunderstand the point or defensively see that as pointlessly mean, then maybe it explains why it would drive some people away, but it does not amount to actual hostility, only to perfectly fair, but hardnosed critical examination.

[Bijou_Drains]

I think more people are OK with atheists than people here think. I don’t think there is much worry that many people are going to jump all over you if you say you are atheist. At least I have not seen that myself and I do live in NC. But maybe I just don’t hang around the right group.

[kopek]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I have not seen this alleged “unbridled hostility” and “irrational prejudice” against believers. Would you care to link to some specific examples?

to which this was the reply

@Dangerosa

Post 3 this thread.

You got to go a damn sight further than that for hostility. I am rostered laity which qualifies me as deeply religious. DtC (and others) and I may have our debates and exchanges but for hostility I go over Ecunet and debate sexuality with some of my more traditional brothers and sisters. There I can get at least one “Die and rot in Hell scum” a week compared to here where I actually get treated pretty nice.
This board, more than most, looks at your thinking. Not always specific thoughts but more how your thoughts are formed and how you can present them. That isn’t a bad place for a religious person to spend time at all.

[Dangerosa]

@Contrapuntal

If I believe your cherished belief system is a load of horse crap I will tell you so. Politeness has nothing to do with it. And I’m not using the “he did it first” defense. What I’m saying is that believers have set it up so that the default position is to take what they say at face value, even if it is unmitigated crap, and then to hide behind a charge of persecution when someone calls them on it. Sorry. God is as believable as an invisible sky fairy, and speaking that truth, rather than humoring someone by being “polite”, is the right thing to do.

Ah, but there is no open hostility and we wonder why we are disproportionally atheist? I think you have now, in fact, proven what my original point was - some of the atheists on this board feel obligated to be rude to theists - it is “the right thing to do.”

[Sr_Siete]

Because Athea is an awesome Goddess. You don’t have to do anything for her and she pretty much leaves you alone.

[Jophiel]

@Dinsdale

Yeah, but it has long been a marketing tool for christianity in the US to present itself as “threatened” despite the incredible wealth of churches and the overwhelming majority of professed believers. Just because someone derives some benefit from assuming a particular position does notmean that position deserves respect.

I suppose but I wouldn’t consider saying “I think there’s less religious people on here because these forums have a trend of hostility towards religion” to be on par with saying the evil liberals are out to destroy Christmas if you don’t vote Republican.

I’m not interested in trying to find examples because there’s nothing in it for me. If I believed there was some sterling thing that would make folks say “Hey, you’re right – there is a hostile trend here” I might put some effort into it. Instead, it’ll be endless back-and-forth of exactly the type we’re already seeing. “That example doesn’t count because you shouldn’t have been insulted. That neither. Nope, don’t see how that could offend anyone…” It’s a bit of an impasse when you have someone saying “I think this is insulting” and the response is a blank “Nope, it’s not.”

[Czarcasm]

@Dangerosa

Ah, but there is no open hostility and we wonder why we are disproportionally atheist? I think you have now, in fact, proven what my original point was - some of the atheists on this board feel obligated to be rude to theists - it is “the right thing to do.”

I think all you have done is re-defined the word “rude”, unless you are claiming that Dopers are “rude” for severely questioning all unsubstantiated claims.

[Contrapuntal]

@Dangerosa

Ah, but there is no open hostility and we wonder why we are disproportionally atheist? I think you have now, in fact, proven what my original point was - some of the atheists on this board feel obligated to be rude to theists - it is “the right thing to do.”

You call it rude. I don’t. Speaking the truth in a debate is the right thing to do. Are you an advocate of lying? I don’t believe in their god. I don’t respect their god. I am appalled by what they do in the name of their god. I am horrified by what they claim he has done to perfectly innocent people. To me it would be disrespectful to pretend to feel any different.

I simply can’t tell you how often I am offended by religious propaganda. Deeply offended. For believers to claim that “sky fairy” rises to a pimple on the butt of that level of offense is just whining, plain and simple.

[Dangerosa]

But the question is “why are there so many atheists here…” And the proposed answer is “this place is hostile to atheists.” So maybe you guys are hostile (although I think this Contrapuntal is about to start foaming at the mouth), maybe it isn’t rude (though I certainly perceive “I don’t care if you are offended, I’m going to call it what I want”) as rude. But OTHER people may, and therefore, may not be comfortable here, or comfortable outing themselves here. Its the perception of the attitudes here that counts, not their intent.

[Jophiel]

@Contrapuntal

I simply can’t tell you how often I am offended by religious propaganda. Deeply offended. For believers to claim that “sky fairy” rises to a pimple on the butt of that level of offense is just whining, plain and simple.

Is that the game? If I claim to be the most offended, I win and you’re just a whiner?

[The_Hamster_King]

To address the OP:

There are so many atheists on this board because most people’s religious beliefs are either unsupported or contradictory or both. They tend to fall apart when subjected to open debate. * As a result there’s a gradual winnowing process where strong believers tend to give up and go away, and strong atheists tend to stick around.

• There are certainly some forms of theism that can hold their own outside of the hothouse of their core community of believers, but not many.

[Bijou_Drains]

@The_Hamster_King

To address the OP:

There are so many atheists on this board because most people’s religious beliefs are either unsupported or contradictory or both. They tend to fall apart when subjected to open debate. * As a result there’s a gradual winnowing process where strong believers tend to give up and go away, and strong atheists tend to stick around.

• There are certainly some forms of theism that can hold their own outside of the hothouse of their core community of believers, but not many.

But what does that have to do with most of this board? People don’t debate religion all over the board do they? For example you could go to cafe society without ever seeing a debate on religion.

[Contrapuntal]

@Dangerosa

But the question is “why are there so many atheists here…” And the proposed answer is “this place is hostile to atheists.” So maybe you guys are hostile (although I think this Contrapuntal is about to start foaming at the mouth), maybe it isn’t rude (though I certainly perceive “I don’t care if you are offended, I’m going to call it what I want”) as rude.

That’s a misrepresentation. Please don’t do it again. What I said was I will call it what it is, not what I want. And I will not let tender feelings dictate the terms of the debate. If a believer simply wants validation, he probably is better off somewhere else.

But OTHER people may, and therefore, may not be comfortable here, or comfortable outing themselves here. Its the perception of the attitudes here that counts, not their intent.

Brilliant. Let’s all just hold hands and hope nobody perceives something the wrong way. Kumbayah.

[QUOTE=Jophiel]
Is that the game? If I claim to be the most offended, I win and you’re just a whiner?
[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. It’s not a game. And claiming offense where there is none would be no way to win it if it were a game. But thanks for confirming my belief that it is a tactic of believers to do so.

[Gustav]

@Bijou_Drains

But what does that have to do with most of this board? People don’t debate religion all over the board do they? For example you could go to cafe society without ever seeing a debate on religion.

Is there any reason to believe people who only post in those forums are disproportionately atheist?

[Telcontar]

I can’t be bothered to read this entire thread, but I suspect people here actively advocating that all religious people be executed might have something to do with it. Unfriendly atmosphere and the like.

[Spice_Weasel]

@MsWhatsit

Yes. There are some people who feel that even such a simple profession of disbelief is akin to calling them stupid or gullible. There is no way to avoid offending these people, short of lying about being an atheist in the first place.

This is true. Even if you don’t want to talk about it, they find a way of outing you. ‘‘What kind of church do you go to?’’ etc. And then they act like you kicked their dog. I have never dared to discuss my atheist beliefs with acquaintances because an atheist is pretty much the worst thing you can openly be in U.S. society. But if pressed I will tell them I am a Buddhist, conveniently leaving out the part that I don’t believe in God. Most people don’t know what Buddhism is anyway.

But it’s not just Christians who react this way. I’ve had Muslims make the same kind of ignorant comments about my beliefs as people make about theirs–one Muslim coworker I had told me that I worshiped the moon. And perhaps the most annoying of all, I’ve had non-religious people on this board consistently misrepresent the teachings of Buddhism and dismiss it based on their invented/misunderstood interpretation. It’s very frustrating, as if someone announced, ‘‘Christianity is stupid because it teaches that Mary Magdalene is the mother of Christ.’’ And you try to explain that Christianity teaches no such thing and they don’t care. I had a friend who used to do that shit all the time, and when I tried to correct him on his factual misrepresentation, he accused me of proselytizing and trying to ‘‘convert’’ him to Buddhism.

Ignorance isn’t strictly the domain of the religious.

[QUOTE=Voyager]
How long have you people been on the net anyway? I assure you that this is not an SDMB thing. The exact thing would have happened in a different context 20 years ago on UseNet, in fact worse since there was no moderation. We are very civil around here (hat off to mods.)
[/QUOTE]

I know there are places on the internet much worse than the Straight Dope. I also know there are places where the members take it for granted you are a Christian. Neither situation seems very conducive of religious tolerance to me. ‘‘Unbridled hostility’’ is perhaps an exaggeration, but the constant sniping and condescending snide remarks and trying to rationalize something that is fundamentally outside the realm of rationality is really fucking annoying. Maybe we are closer to having a balance here than any other place on the 'net, but the rude comments/dismissive remarks we do have still bug the shit out of me.

[QUOTE=Bosstone]

The SDMB is where people who think they’re intelligent skeptics gather. Whether or not they’re right is wholly irrelevant. Atheism appeals to rational elitists.
[/QUOTE]

This, this, a thousand times this. This board is not especially dedicated to objectivity and learning, particularly on subjects that threaten its dominant worldview. I wish we could dismiss with this delusion. Science is master when it comes to say, the physics of airplanes and treadmills, but the moment you approach anything remotely relevant to personal experience, it becomes, ‘‘I don’t care about your freakin’ cites! My beliefs are obviously true to anyone with common sense! That stupid study doesn’t refute all my anecdotes!’’ This attitude tends to be a real turn-off to actual scientists and skeptics – at least the ones I’ve invited to join, who have unanimously said, ‘‘Ha! They’re really funny! Oh, that’s interesting. Oh, look at all these cites being completely ignored. No thanks.’’

[The_Hamster_King]

@Gustav

Is there any reason to believe people who only post in those forums are disproportionately atheist?

Exactly. The visible atheists and theists are the ones arguing about it. I’m sure there are plenty of believers posting outside of Great Debates.

But in Great Debates believers are operating at a significant disadvantage. Atheism is a very simple and consistent belief system. Whereas most religious are large, complicated grab-bags of complicated and sometimes contradictory ideas. There are certainly some theists up to the task of defending themselves against rigorous attack, but not many. Most strong believers who are interested in witnessing and arguing about religion tend to get mauled and drop out of Great Debates or leave the board entirely.

[Czarcasm]

I think a large portion of atheists post here because they are allowed to bestow the same amount of respect and questioning the religionists give them. It may seem as if there is an overabundance of atheists because you are used to them “behaving” and not stirring the pot.