I just saw a movie last night that fits this trope exactly. Some loser was getting ordered around by a hot babe, doing all sorts of chores for her, in the hope that she’d eventually fall for him. She didn’t even bother to learn his name, and he just kept doing every lousy job she gave him without complaint. And that was all in the first five minutes.
Pathetic.
Hehe
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I was a nice guy once, although in my defense, I never blamed my failures on the girl, only own shortcomings.
It ended when a hot girl I barely knew decided she liked me and took me to bed, leaving me happy and somewhat bewildered. It’s been 16 years and we’re still together.
I think there’s some truth to this, and I also think the “nice guy” thing is pretty much a myth. Some guys that have trouble getting dates are really shy and don’t ask out that many women (I used to have this problem). They form infatuations towards women before they ask them out, then take rejection personally, feel hurt and linger on it. They don’t get comfortable asking women out because they don’t do it that much.
The guys that you see with different girls all the time, ask out different girls all the time. They play the averages, and they don’t care if they get shot down because they’ll hit on 10 girls a day.
And some women are attracted to men for (gasp!) reasons other than personality. Which leads to them dating some real assholes who happen to be good looking, or good in bed, or good in the wallet. “Nice guy” looks at them and thinks “what do they have that I don’t?”. Chances are she didn’t say “damn, this guy is a jackoff. I want some!”. She just thought “wow that guys hair would look good in pictures of me!” or whatever.
One should try to be themselves and not act the way they think will make them more attractive to the opposite sex. If you be yourself you will find someone who is attracted to you for yourself, not your money or your looks or anything else.
Honestly, I lost my virginity. After that, sex and women stopped being this big scary thing that I didn’t understand, but knew I wanted. After a couple of real relationships, I just kind of calmed down and got to know myself better. Then I became jaded single guy for a while, but that’s another thread.
There’s been a lot of women in the media recently spouting that mantra. What none of them seem to realise is that there is a difference between being “strong” and being an aggressive, unpleasant, dominating bitch.
I don’t have a problem with “strong”.
That loser’s job was actually to take orders from that hot babe. One might say he was a “boy” who worked on her parents “farm.”
Starting around my last year of college, I lost 40 or 50 pounds and started to develop a bit of a personal aesthetic – things like a decent haircut and clean, unwrinkled clothes that looked good on me. Also, I observed that the few times I managed to hook up were when I wasn’t trying, because I had to work the next morning or the whole party was an unplanned outgrowth from a casual beer-on-the-porch gathering or whatever. Putting two and two together, I changed my approach and lost the desperate-puppy vibe I was throwing off before. I figured out that women want nookie as much as men do and decided that the nice and respectful thing to do is to close the deal and give them some.
In other words, I became more attractive to women. I was still a nice guy but now I was a nice guy who got laid sometimes.
I don’t think most Nice Guy Martyrs are intentionally malicious the way these threads often make them out to be but I can see how the attitude comes off as pretty demeaning and off-putting.
Yeah, but the way she acts, you get the impression that tormenting him is one of her two favorite pastimes.
This is a little more clear in the book, but at no time does she appreciate his efforts. One day she notices he’s really, really handsome.
This is based off the book “Quiet” by Susan Cain.
Here is something to consider. Quiet, shy people are simply dismissed in a lot of ways in this society. It can have a lot of negative effects on the individual as well. It’s something that a person can’t always control either, it’s just how they are.
So we celebrate the assertive, confident type (extrovert) almost unanimously, and dismiss the shy (introvert) type.
A lot of these guys that you label as needy, desperate, sometimes even creepy can often be very decent guys. Perhaps, more so than the confident, assertive type. They just need time to get out of their shell.
I’m glad you linked to this, her TedTalk is great. But I’ve never thought that quiet people are dismissed, in fact, I think that quiet types are often given credit for being studious, prudent, and analytical whether they are or not. Introverts have their own respected status and good reputations. But I think things go wonky when quiet guys invest all their hope and energy into pursuing extroverted, outgoing women instead of choosing someone better matched to their personality. The head cheerleader or homecoming queen may catch everyone’s eye, but she probably doesn’t want to go to a LAN party.
Nothing wrong with being a nice guy. The problem begins when you start expecting things for being a nice guy.
nm
Let’s try approaching this differently- forget about romance for a second. I already used a sports analogy, but I’ll use another, as part of a series of questions.
Are there a lot of jerks in major league baseball? Of course! But has ANY “nice person” ever said to himself, “Why do the Pirates have a jerk like Barry Bonds in left field, instead of a nice guy like me?” Of course not! Every fan understands that the Pirates didn’t choose jerky Barry Bonds over “nice” Astorian BECAUSE he’s a jerk- they picked him because he had a host of qualities I don’t have. He could hit homers, he could steal bases, he could run down fly balls. I couldn’t. All other things being equal, I’m sure the Pirates would have preferred a nice superstar to a jerky superstar… but better a jerky superstar than a nice guy who can’t produce on the field.
SOME doctors are arrogant jerks. Does anyone ever ask, “Why did THAT prick get into medical school instead of a nice guy like me?” NO! Because we know darn well why the prick got into medical school ahead of you- he had a 4.0 GPA and a 1500 on his SAT. Medical schools pick the applicants with the best credentials, NOT the nicest applicants. I’m sure medical schools would rather have nice smart people than mean smart people, but better a mean smart guy than a dumb nice guy.
Would ANY “nice guy” expect to get hired for a job he isn’t qualified for over a surlier cuss who is?
Point being, jerks DO sometimes succeed where nicer people fail, but they don’t succeed BECAUSE they’re jerks. They succeed because they have skills or talents or traits that are in demand.
It’s no different with women. Women don’t set out to date or marry jerks- rather, they look for men who have certain traits they want. SOMETIMES, the guys with those traits turn out to be jerks. It doesn’t follow that she should then replace him with a nicer guy who has NONE of the traits she wants.
Any “nice guy” has to look at himself in the mirror and ask honestly, “Is the problem really that I’m too nice, or is it something else? Am I a prize catch in every way, apart from being too nice? Am I so handsome, fit, funny, prosperous, charming, interesting, and fun to be around that I OUGHT to be beating off women with a baseball bat? Am I an extremely desirable male in every way, EXCEPT for being too nice? Those ‘jerks’ that my Unrequited Love Queen is dating… can I see NO reason at all why a women would find them attractive?”
Most likely, “nice guys” KNOW that there are very good reasons that a lot of women wouldn’t be interested in them.
Thing is, MOST people are “nice,” if we define that as “Generally affable, polite, and pleasant.” That’s setting the bar mighty low. We WANT most of the people in our lives to be “nice,” but that’s a mighty minimal qualification for anything. There are MILLIONS of “nice guys” out there- they’re only a little bit rarer than guys with a pulse! You need more than that to get ANYTHING in life, be it a job, a friend or a spouse.
Why would an employer hire Nice Guy Joe when he could hire Nice Guy Larry who’s also smart and has experience in related fields?
Why would a law school accept Nice Guy Bill over Nice Guy Tom, who has much better grades?
Why should an attractive women with options date/marry Jeff (who’s a nice guy) when she could date/marry Steve (who’s a nice guy AND has a high-paying job AND has a muscular physique AND shares a lot of common interest with her AND…)?
Just FYI, Princess Bride is a satire. The fact that it became a worthy example of what it was lampooning is a tribute to William Goldman’s skill, but that doesn’t stop it being a satire, too.
Anyway I just came in here to say that attractive women often know Nice Guys when the Nice Guys are not nice to their less-attractive friends. Shovel out only the hot girl’s car but never help her friends? A Nice Guy, not a good man.
Me either - no matter how hard I try, I still remember the lessons I learned as I grew up.
The first thing I did when checking out a romantic interest was observe how he treated other people. Not just me and my friends, but his own friends, the neighbor, the waiter. All of that to me points to what kind of behavior you can really expect from him once the infatuation stage of the relationship has passed. One of the first things that attracted me to my husband was just how good he was to people. It didn’t come from a sense of wanting recognition, he just genuinely cares about others.
I don’t like the hijacking of the ‘‘nice guy’’ phrase because it’s not accurate. I’d rather it be ‘‘desperate guy’’ or ‘‘romantically clueless guy’’ or something else. There are actual genuine nice guys out there that deserve recognition.
I postulate that most people have the cause and effect backwards on this.
Attractive people deal with a lot of attention, to the point that it affects how they deal with everyone - ie. making them bitches and bastards.
I’ve heard of women that think they can change a bad-boy, but I’m not convinced that the challenge is what attracts them.
I think it is (more like): they want an attactive partner, but all the ‘good’ ones are taken (or gay <sic>), so they find a ‘not-so-good’ one and figure they’ll ‘make it work’…
Far more likely is that the “bastards” aren’t that bastardy to begin with. I know a lot of guys that would commonly be known as “assholes” and they treat their GF’s pretty well.