How did you stop being a 'Nice Guy'?

[Doggo]

@astorian

Let’s try approaching this differently- forget about romance for a second. I already used a sports analogy, but I’ll use another, as part of a series of questions.

Are there a lot of jerks in major league baseball? Of course! But has ANY “nice person” ever said to himself, “Why do the Pirates have a jerk like Barry Bonds in left field, instead of a nice guy like me?” Of course not! Every fan understands that the Pirates didn’t choose jerky Barry Bonds over “nice” Astorian BECAUSE he’s a jerk- they picked him because he had a host of qualities I don’t have. He could hit homers, he could steal bases, he could run down fly balls. I couldn’t. All other things being equal, I’m sure the Pirates would have preferred a nice superstar to a jerky superstar… but better a jerky superstar than a nice guy who can’t produce on the field.

SOME doctors are arrogant jerks. Does anyone ever ask, “Why did THAT prick get into medical school instead of a nice guy like me?” NO! Because we know darn well why the prick got into medical school ahead of you- he had a 4.0 GPA and a 1500 on his SAT. Medical schools pick the applicants with the best credentials, NOT the nicest applicants. I’m sure medical schools would rather have nice smart people than mean smart people, but better a mean smart guy than a dumb nice guy.

Would ANY “nice guy” expect to get hired for a job he isn’t qualified for over a surlier cuss who is?

Point being, jerks DO sometimes succeed where nicer people fail, but they don’t succeed BECAUSE they’re jerks. They succeed because they have skills or talents or traits that are in demand.

It’s no different with women. Women don’t set out to date or marry jerks- rather, they look for men who have certain traits they want. SOMETIMES, the guys with those traits turn out to be jerks. It doesn’t follow that she should then replace him with a nicer guy who has NONE of the traits she wants.

Any “nice guy” has to look at himself in the mirror and ask honestly, “Is the problem really that I’m too nice, or is it something else? Am I a prize catch in every way, apart from being too nice? Am I so handsome, fit, funny, prosperous, charming, interesting, and fun to be around that I OUGHT to be beating off women with a baseball bat? Am I an extremely desirable male in every way, EXCEPT for being too nice? Those ‘jerks’ that my Unrequited Love Queen is dating… can I see NO reason at all why a women would find them attractive?”

Most likely, “nice guys” KNOW that there are very good reasons that a lot of women wouldn’t be interested in them.

Thing is, MOST people are “nice,” if we define that as “Generally affable, polite, and pleasant.” That’s setting the bar mighty low. We WANT most of the people in our lives to be “nice,” but that’s a mighty minimal qualification for anything. There are MILLIONS of “nice guys” out there- they’re only a little bit rarer than guys with a pulse! You need more than that to get ANYTHING in life, be it a job, a friend or a spouse.

Why would an employer hire Nice Guy Joe when he could hire Nice Guy Larry who’s also smart and has experience in related fields?

Why would a law school accept Nice Guy Bill over Nice Guy Tom, who has much better grades?

Why should an attractive women with options date/marry Jeff (who’s a nice guy) when she could date/marry Steve (who’s a nice guy AND has a high-paying job AND has a muscular physique AND shares a lot of common interest with her AND…)?

Because once the wedding is out of the way, and she has a couple of children and is wanting support and help from “Steve”, he’s too busy with his high paying job to hang around screaming kids and give her the support she wants. However, “Jeff” might have been exactly what she needed in her changed circumstances.
People that marry, usually have children, and a muscular physique isn’t necesarily what she needs then. She should be looking to the future when selecting a potential husband/ father.
However, she probably just married in lust, which is the worst thing to do, if wanting a life long partner.
BTW, “common interests” change after childbirth. It’s usually no longer an option to go clubbing every night, or whatever floats your boat when single.

IMO too many women make the mistake of thinking that a driven business man that is into “non children” related activites can change to suit the new dynamic- NOT SO.
Men don’t normally change. A surprise to my ex that thought the alcoholic bastard she married first time around would change once she got the ring on him. A sad tale, but oh so common.

[astorian]

@Doggo

Because once the wedding is out of the way, and she has a couple of children and is wanting support and help from “Steve”, he’s too busy with his high paying job to hang around screaming kids and give her the support she wants. However, “Jeff” might have been exactly what she needed in her changed circumstances.
People that marry, usually have children, and a muscular physique isn’t necesarily what she needs then. She should be looking to the future when selecting a potential husband/ father.
However, she probably just married in lust, which is the worst thing to do, if wanting a life long partner.
BTW, “common interests” change after childbirth. It’s usually no longer an option to go clubbing every night, or whatever floats your boat when single.

IMO too many women make the mistake of thinking that a driven business man that is into “non children” related activites can change to suit the new dynamic- NOT SO.
Men don’t normally change. A surprise to my ex that thought the alcoholic bastard she married first time around would change once she got the ring on him. A sad tale, but oh so common.

Even if there’s some validty to this, it doesn’t help introverted single “nice guys” like I used to be.

I myself have only been madly, passionately in love twice in my life. In both cases, the women I was in love with regarded me only as a quirky friend to have occasional lunches, outings or interesting conversations with. One of them was a wonderful woman I truly hoped and believed I’d have a real chance with (I was wrong- she was the one I made the mistake of hanging around with for ages in hopes she’d change her mind). The other… she was a wonderful woman I sort of knew all along wouldn’t go for a guy like me. She wanted/needed a much more macho guy than I could ever be. She needed a cowboy, which is definitely not me!

After she gave me a very nice (and not unexpected) brushoff, she started dating a cowboy, who (sure enough) turned out to be an abusive jerk. She DID break up with him… but did she then realize “Astorian was the one for me all along?” Get real. The cowboy was a creep, but that didn’t change what she wanted or needed in a man. Her solution was to look for a nicer cowboy, not to start dating a nerd who just didn’t turn her on.

Introverts like myself may sometimes WANT to tell themselves that passion and sexual chemistry shouldn’t be so important, but they ARE. And a woman who felt no such passion or sexual chemistry with me would NOT be doing me a favor if she dated or married me.

[msmith537]

@HipGnosis

Attractive people deal with a lot of attention, to the point that it affects how they deal with everyone - ie. making them bitches and bastards.

I don’t think it makes them bitches and bastards necessarily. I think that it can make them sort of indifferent regarding personal relationships since people tend to be naturally attracted to them. Or the constant attention can make them standoffish if it is unwanted.

I don’t think women go around thinking “I’m going to be a bitch to this guy”. I think it’s more like “great…this is the tenth idiot today who is going to hit on me.”

@Doggo

Men don’t normally change. A surprise to my ex that thought the alcoholic bastard she married first time around would change once she got the ring on him. A sad tale, but oh so common.

Wait..if it was your ex then was the “alcoholic bastard she married” you?