How do American Jews typically feel about Israel and Zionism?

In My Humble Opinion
1

OK… huge disclaimer upfront: This is not meant to disparage Jews in any way, shape or form, be they American or otherwise. It also isn’t meant to directly critique Israeli policy per se. It’s meant as an honest question coming from a place of ignorance (or at least under-informedness), not a challenge to any particular ideology. It’s not in Great Debates on purpose, and hopefully we can keep it that way, staying closer to a “sharing of perspectives” rather than a “who’s right or wrong” debate.

With that said: Is there any sort of general pattern among Jews in America about how they feel about Israel and Zionism — which apparently has several interpretations, but is it maybe fair to describe it as the overall concept of Jewish self-determination, usually involving the right for Israel to exist as a sovereign nation, but with mixed feelings about Palestine? Specifically, how do they feel about the decades of the conflict in that region, and US support of Israel during them?

I know that a lot of US Jews vote Democrat, for example, but the Democratic Party itself has internal fissures in regards to how it approaches American support of Israel. Is there any sense of how Jews in particular feel about this? Is this something they’re equally divided on, or is it one of those where they vote Democrat despite the party’s stance?

One of my exes was a Jew, but quite far left politically. She was part of Jewish Voice for Peace, a group of progressive Jews who broadly support Palestinian self-determination and advocating for an end to (in their words) apartheid in Israel. They also broadly support the BDS (boycott, divest, sanction) movement against Israel.

This, I take it, is quite different a stance from, say, AIPAC’s, who is staunchly pro-Zionist and pushes for strong US support (military and otherwise) of Israel, with less focus on Palestinian rights.

(Edit: And in the center is apparently J Street, a pro-Zionist, pro-peace, anti-BDS group supportive of a two-state solution. I had not heard of them previously.)

What I’m trying to get a sense of is where most American Jews fall along this spectrum (or even outside of it). Are they mostly clustered in one part of that spectrum? Is a bimodal distribution clustered around the extremes, or is it more like a bell curve with a big center? Are they all over the place, depending on the individual? Research, polls, second-hand anecdotes, personal opinions (if you are Jewish)… all are welcome. I just want to learn more about this situation.

2

I don’t think for a moment I can speak for “most Jews” as it varies dramatically, especially for those in the various sub-denominations of Judaism as a faith as opposed to a culture/ethnicity/etc.

Speaking only for myself first, I’m nearly entirely secular. As such, I’m generally pro-Israel in definitively defensive attacks - for example, I supported Israel’s retaliation (note, I don’t exactly call it justice) for the Hamas attacks of October 2023. But, as is sadly often the for these conflicts, it further encourages the cycle of violence. Do I feel badly for the Palestinian People who have few options in getting rid of Hamas? Absolutely. Do I have a solution when Hamas is making things worse (in a different way from Israeli hardliners, though the parallels…)? Hell no.

I do not support many actions of the current Israeli government. Bibi is a big part of the problem, in the same way Trump is a huge part of our domestic (USA) issues, but I don’t deny that either leader’s views don’t represent a substantial portion (though far from all) of their populations.

I do not financially support AIPAC or other Zionist (as opposed to Israel in general) factions, speaking specifically to a concrete example of my attitudes.

But I’m very torn when it comes to family attitudes. Because, as my father has gotten older, he’s been much more Pro-Israel, and our family situation is complicated. My father’s only sister who passed recently, along with my 3 cousins all have dual citizenship. Of the three, two live mostly in the USA after growing up in Israel, and the third (and his large family) lives in Israel. All three are very much pro-Israel, with various degrees of honest and/or selfish patriotism.

They absolutely (as individuals, not as a reflection of a larger group) vote for Israeli interests before American interests IMHO. I do get periodic requests to support Trump because he’s good for Israel, rather than good for the American people. I do not respond to such.

Otherwise, based on my personal, and certainly self-selecting associate with individuals in person and online, I see at least a weak correlation between strength of faith and support of Zionism.

I stress again, this is a weak correlation, and I’d draw no serious conclusions from it, but the more traditional your faith (with Reform being “weakest” as it were) the more likely you’re to support the Zionist tendencies.

I feel bad even mentioning it, because of all the if’s / an’s / but’s, but again, we’re in IMHO, not GD. It’s a personal impression, out of a pretty small selection since I’m NOT active in the faith.

And while we’re at the IMHO stage - a lot of the sorts of questions being asked by @Reply as the OP engender really unpleasant defensiveness because while I absolutely consider Reply asking out of honest curiosity, in the current American political climate, the vast majority of people asking the question are asking with one or more axes to grind. To the point that I would not answer anywhere else.

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There are sects of e.g. Hasidic Jews that reject the legitimacy of a State of Israel on religious grounds: Religious anti-Zionism - Wikipedia

4

I’m, uh, in favor.

5

Really it is very very broad.

There are those for whom Israel can do no wrong and anti-Zionists and all points in between.

My point in the spectrum is that I am a Zionist is that I believe in the right of the state to exist, and very much against the current government there and its policies and actions. Of course I am also a lover of America who is very much against our current government and its actions.

I do think I have been ghosted by some friends socially for stating that I am a Zionist though.

I am extremely concerned about the conflation of Israel with Jewish. In all directions, by some Jews, by anti-Semites, and by a bulk of just confused folk who don’t think about things much.

I would guess the average American Jew leans secular and is willing to be both critical and supportive of Israel to varying degrees. But average with a large variation about the mean.

6

Speaking as a Canadian Jew, I’m a Zionist. I believe that the Jewish people have a right to a state in the land we are indigenous to. At the same time, a two state solution where the Palestinians control their own fate is the only path to peace.

I also believe Netanyahu and his gang are criminals, Arafat and those who followed him are too.

7

You’re talking about a group of people for whom it is said that if you have two individuals you’ll have three opinions.

So… First I will speak of myself and what I know of my extended family (most of whom are now deceased).

My father’s family was of a category of Jew that was very observant but ALSO felt that the foundation of modern Israel was in error. They’re belief was that it was the role of the promised messiah to do that, not a bunch of WWII survivors. They certainly never advocated to eliminate modern Israel, but opposed its founding based on their faith and beliefs.

My immediate family has always leaned liberal/progressive (if anything, I’m the most politically conservative of them and anyone familiar with my 25+ year posting history here will raise a Spock-brow at that and murmur “fascinating”). They have long recognized that the Palestinians in Israel are second-class citizens at best, oppressed, discriminated against, and subjected to apartheid. I also agree with this position.

I have nothing against Palestinians, Muslims, Arabs, Jews, or Israelis in general. I do object to certain sub-groups of the above based on their actions. I object to anyone who commits terrorist attacks, oppresses others, commits warcrimes, or turns a blind eye to their side performing those actions.

I oppose the leadership of Hamas and those who commit atrocities on behalf of Hamas while not being opposed to those who, by chance, live under the rule of Hamas. Rinse and repeat for the Iranian government and Iranians at large. Rinse and repeat for Hezbollah and Lebanese at large. Rinse and repeat for the Israeli government and Israelis at large. Rinse and repeat for the US government and Americans at large.

It is always important to be mindful of the distinction between being a Jew and being either an Israeli Jew or an American Jew. (And some people are both in that they have dual citizenship, but that can get tricky) It is important not to conflate all Jews with modern Israel. Some of us have zero interest in moving to Israel or to becoming Israeli. There are Israelis who despise American Jews (with a few exceptions) or who think all Jews should live only in Israel. There are screwballs who want to build a Third Temple (and are getting help from an evangelical cattle rancher attempting to breed an acceptable Red Heifer because he’s eager for the End Times and, presumably, the death and destruction and suffering that would result).

Given that, despite the fact that pretty much anyone Jewish can move to Israel and get citizenship the fact that there are still roughly as many Jews in the US as in Israel, and slightly more Jews are still in the global Diaspora instead of all cramming into Israel, one can conclude that not every Jew is an enthusiastic cheerleader for modern Israel.

8

In general that holds up… until you get to the Ultra Orthodox. There are a number of groups in the NYC area that feel that modern Israel was founded in error because it was done by ordinary people and not the promised messiah. That doesn’t prevent them from visiting Israel or various holy sites, but they really think it’s been a mistake from the beginning and that’s why they remain in New York instead of moving to Israel.

But yeah, as you travel the spectrum from Reform to Conservative to Modern Orthodox there’s a tendency to support modern Israel more and more.

Should we note the distinction between “the modern nation of Israel” and the ritual/prayer reference to “Israel” or the “nation of Israel”? The former means, well, the modern nation of Israel. The latter refers to the entirety of Jews world wide. It gets confusing because the same word is used for both and context starts to matter a lot.

The largest grouping of Jews in the US are the Reform, at about 35-40% of American Jews depending on survey. Which should give some idea of how difficult it is to talk about the “average” American Jew. 10% describe themselves as just Jewish or secular or ethnically Jewish so they could land anywhere on these sorts of questions.

Once again - two Jews, three opinions.

You’re trying to hit a moving target. The only real answer is “the answer(s) depend on which Jew you’re talking to”. Even knowing the denomination of a Jewish person is not a reliable indicator of political leanings - because really, “Israel and Zionism” are about politics even if there’s a religious element in there.

9

I just want to say that I really appreciate the answers so far. It’s fascinating reading about this at arm’s length, seeing the overlap and differences between the cultural, the religious, the secular, the political, etc. It’d make for a very interesting Venn diagrams — 3+ circles for every two people, apparently.

A recurring theme so far seems to be this idea that “I believe that the Jewish people deserve a homeland, but I don’t necessarily agree with the way that ideology is being enacted by its current leadership” (and same thing would apply to the other countries, including the US).

But it’s interesting to think about that specifically in the Jewish context. While “I don’t agree with the leaders, but I don’t blame the everyday people” is probably a mindset held by a lot of people in a lot of countries, most of those people/countries probably haven’t had to live under the constant persecution and existential threat that the Jews have faced.

By that, I just mean it seems easier to say “I don’t agree with my group’s leaders” when that position doesn’t really threaten my life or physical security — I can disagree with the Republicans or the Democrats all I want, but either way, my stance wouldn’t really much threaten the physical security of the United States as a sovereign nation. It seems much trickier with (modern) Israel when its moral and philosophical possibilities are inextricably tied to its ability to exist… or at least that’s my understanding of the situation? I don’t know who’s right about that, whether militant Zionism or what JVP calls “post-Zionism” (or something else altogether) is the right answer, but regardless, the question itself seems inextricably connected to the existence of modern Israel.

From the answers so far, it seems like the existence of Israel is at least the basic common baseline among all but the Ultra Orthodox. That is to say, the Overton window would typically include modern Israel by default, and the perimeters of that window are more about how that state ought to deal with its opponents. I take it that would preclude the idea of a Jewish diaspora living without a modern state of Israel — at least to the non-Ultra Orthodox?

I didn’t know about this distinction, interesting.

How are these sorts of philosophical disagreements typically handled within the Jewish community itself? Does Jewish in-group solidarity typically override these smaller internal divisions, or does it ever threaten to rise to the level of, say, Protestant-Catholic sectarian violence? Were there ever Jewish civil wars, either in antiquity or more recently?

10

I’m an American non practicing Jew (because my mother’s Jewish). I have long considered myself Zionist, which to me means there needs to be, on Earth, a safe place for Jews. My Zionism has zero attachment to the nation of Israel or the land of that region.

Israel is decidedly not that “safe place for Jews” right now. The actions of their government are making Jews less safe inside Israel and around the world IMO. Israel is presently an enemy of Jews and peaceful people of all stripes around the world, and I will not vote for a primary candidate to a federal position going forward who is not opposed to this government of Israel and its policies in Gaza, the West Bank, and warmongering in general.

11

We almost had an Israeli civil war in 1948:

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Netanyahu doesn’t speak for all Israelis, just as tRump doesn’t speak for all Americans. One can love the idea of a Jewish homeland while objecting to the West Bank settlements. I think this is the most common sentiment.

13

Oh yes.

My favorite bit of under-told history is the aftermath of the Chanukah story.

The Hasmoneans, the Macabbee family, were absolute bastards in power. Forced conversions. Massacres of the Pharisees. And battles for power between brothers that invited the Romans in.

Current times the political existential threat has been the secular vs the ultra religious, which has been kicked down the road by way of external threats, but may yet be the end of the country, IMHO with much greater likelihood than by way of any external threat.

14

Jews tend to vote for progressives/Democrats for the same reasons as non-Jews - because of issues that are far more important to them than Israel.

Polls show most Jews are against the war in Iran, like other progressives/Democrats.

Republicans keep making the mistake of thinking they can siphon off the Jewish vote by wholeheartedly supporting Israeli policy, good and bad. It doesn’t work.
Democrats would maintain substantial support from Jewish voters by curtailing military support for Israel until it meaningfully suppresses its extremists and stops settlement-building on land needed for a Palestinian state. But Democrats have been unwilling to take this step.

At the same time, Jews are well aware of bad actors clamoring against “Zionists” and showing off their poorly-concealed bigotry in pretend concern for Palestinians. The Democratic Party needs to do more to call out these anti-Semites, but there’s been limited incentive to.

15

I grew up raising money to plant trees in Isreal, although my Jewish education stopped when I was around 10 years old. I have no attachment to the religion. It’s as foreign to me as Catholicism or Islam. I guess I bought into the American myth that a country should be based on principles and ideals, and not ethnic or religious grouping. Therefore, I am against the idea of establishing “Jewish state.” Of course, that was done long before I was born, so now we have one. I’d support a transition to multiethnic democracy based on the American model (but hopefully with some additional safeguards to prevent the mess we currently have)

16

I don’t want to see the end of any country, regardless of the people of which that country is comprised.

However… the Jews lived as a Diaspora for 1800 years. I, personally, don’t see the existence of the modern state of Israel as necessary for the survival of Jews as a whole. Given that the First Temple stood for about 400 years and the Second for 600 the Jews have actually lived longer as Diaspora than they did under the Temple Judaism in Israel/Judea.

While there is some basis for your conclusion it is important to remember that there is no one overarching authority among Jews. Even among a sub-division like “Reform” or “Orthodox” no one person speaks for the whole, it’s all committees and councils. Over the centuries various entities have tried to nail down the Jews in a particular locale to just one spokesperson - say, “The Chief Rabbi of XYZ City” - but that’s like saying “Chief Cat Herder of XYZ City”

My paternal grandmother - who was born around 1900 and thus quite a few years before the Zionists founded modern Israel - once told me that when her family moved to the US in many ways they regarded it as the promised land and a refuge even as they still spoke of returning to Zion in their prayers and rituals. At the end of the Passover Seder they’d say “next year in Jerusalem” but they really meant “Next year in St. Louis”. Although there was definitely still anti-Jewish bias among some people legally they were full citizens and the law enforcement/justice system treated them like everyone else. They were able to buy and own real estate, practice their religion openly, all professions were open to them… these things were in no way guarantee or universal in Eastern Europe where they had lived for centuries.

The notion that the Jews could find safe harbor outside the Levant is not new or novel. Few have really looked into the history of modern Zionism and it’s not always pretty. “Go back to the Levant and take it by force of arms” was far from a universal desire.

Allegedly there once was a unified kingdom of Hebrews call “Israel”. After Solomon it split into “The Kingdom of Israel” (the northern portion) and the Kingdom of Juda" (the southern portion). So draw your own conclusions.

While there is solid evidence of the Two Kingdoms the existence of one, unified kingdom is shaky, it may be mythical.

In general when Jews are a distinct minority they tend to close ranks. They still have significant disagreements but like quarreling brothers will unite against external threats. When there aren’t external threats internal divisions start to become more prominent. Which phenomena is hardly limited to Jews, it’s the feature of a lot of human groups.

17

@Reply you might be interested in this article in The New York Times (gift link)

18

I met someone who told me that, to paraphrase, “The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People’s Front”. I think he was talking about Galician versus Lithuanian Jews, or something like that? He was not American, at any rate.

19

Not a Jew, but I agree with all of this. Israel has a right to defend itself with greater force and vigour than most other nations would, because of the unique threat that it’s constantly under. The ayatollahs in Iran have explicitly expressed the view that Israel needs to be obliterated off the map, and while the vast majority of ordinary Iranians don’t share this contemptible view, the current Iranian regime certainly does.

There are a lot of nuances here that need to be unpacked. Typical Iranians are not the ayatollahs, and typical Jews inside or outside of Israel are not Netanyahu, who is an unapologetic extremist hawk and likely a war criminal.

20

The hard part is defining “Zionism.” I assume you’re not using “believing Israel has a right to exist” as your definition, but there are plenty of people who use it or one even wider.