With regard to why this became an etiquette custom in the first place, I have always theorized that it came about due to simple logistics.
Say you’ve got a plate with a steak, a baked potato, and some veggies. Space is limited. After you’ve cut more than a few pieces of steak, the odds increase that with your vigorous cutting motions you will accidentally knock a piece of steak off your plate onto the table or floor–potentially embarassing. I speak from bitter experience. So I cut a couple pieces, eat, and cut some more. Not because cutting the whole thing up is uncouth, but because I like my food to stay on my plate.
Right. I wouldn’t condemn any acquaintance’s manners (except a child’s). And it seems facile, long distance, with little other information to go on! Criticising a SO’s manners seems like a VERY touchy subject, liable to be remembered for a long, long time. Even if Mr. P does eat like a pig, I’d question whether it was worth following up.
I’m not fond of crude generalizations… I mean… that would be uncouth, wouldn’t it? I’ve seen people pick their noses in public with such grace I didn’t find it unmannerly. But it doesn’t sound like Mr. P is bucking for the Jackie O award of cultivation. I suspect Mrs. P is looking for any sign of willingness to improve…?..who knows…
Heh, heh. Ok, it isn’t alive. It just looks like it. And it really freaks people out. I especially enjoy doing this to my macho male friends when they need taking down a peg.
I love feta (and limburger, want a Care package, it would probably be kinda smelly by the time it got there…)? Ok, that’s as unmannerly as I’m getting… Short answer, I’d never order anything with feta in it when you were there.
Gee, as Dopers I thought we went for 2 doses of reality, followed by 4 of mob hysteria, 3 of recrimination and insult, and (optional) 1 dose of moderator somewhat common sense.
Somebody in the other manners thread going right now suggested that it was time to start talking specifics about which manners are out-of-date/classist/counterproductive. We haven’t quite got there yet – we haven’t agreed which manners are useful, and which just serve a generally welcome social function.
In a restaurant, cutting up everything on your plate, and breaking the bread into bite-sized pieces completely ruins the cosmetic appearance that the chef intended. Other people’s dishes are there for us to enjoy looking at, too. Don’t you enjoy a nice presentation on someone else’s plate when it arrives? If I’m on a camping trip, hey, I’m just grateful to see the food arrive cooked and warm in my aluminum camp plate. If it’s at home, though, I’ll probably want to give the chef the benefit of the doubt, and treat the meal as though it had been artfully arranged. Now, when it’s serve yourself, I think it’s just a matter of harkening to a more refined atmosphere. Habit. It’s not strictly necessary. But only if it’s apparent people would know how to cut things up if they were in a formal setting.
'Nope. I can hardly think of anything less classist than good manners. They cost nothing. I may not be able to provide my children with all the worldly goods that some others can, or open as many doors for them (so to speak), but teaching them good manners is absolutely free. ’
Don’t confuse class with cash, Cher3. Class is about elitism, regardless of how well off you are! It’s also a good way to identify yourself with a group and, by definition, look down on those that don’t abide by your rules.
On the wider issue, I’m with the crowd that says that this type of ‘etiquette’ serves nobody. Etiquette is fundamentally different from manners. The whole point is that manners are meant to make situations more comfortable for everyone. Etiquette is about doing things ‘the right way’ and, is entirely arbitrary depending on which 19th century rule book you consult. Talking with your mouth full is bad manners because no one wants to see what you’re masticated food looks like - putting your napkin back on your plate is bad etiquette but is hardly offensive to mixed company!
Re the OP - if it doesn’t bother you at home, how can it possibly bother you in company. Simple. You want to make ‘a good impression’ with your guests, you want them to believe you are somehow ‘better’ than you are. I’d want to ask myself why…?
Sorry to all if this sounds like a rant - but i was brought up with ‘good manners’ but not learning etiquette - and I’m pleased!
How come nobody’s address the illogicity of cutting up beforehand makes eating faster? How in the heck does that happen? Should be the other way round, no? If you cut up your meat all at once, that should take the same cutting time as cutting it up as you go along. However, if you cut as you go along, you can cut your meat while chewing, thus killing two birds with one stone and saving time. There’s no way I can think of that cutting beforehand will save eating time. It should increase it.
No one is saying that all manners are stupid and arbitrary. I would be uncomfortable at a table where someone chewed or spoke with their mouth full, made excessive noises while eating or reached across other people’s plates for things. Those actually affect the ability of other people to enjoy their meal. In the first two examples, they’re actually gross. How one cuts his meat up on his own plate is arbitrary.
This thread got me thinking about how I ate steak, which since I don’t do it very often, I had to think back on. I usually start with cutting a strip and cutting it into bite-sized pieces until I’ve eaten about half of it. Then I finish cutting the entire thing into bite-sized pieces because I’m tired of constantly picking up the knife. I have a very low tolerance for steak, so I can’t eat much of it anyway. Cutting it up into smaller pieces helps me eat what’s on my plate. I do remember that the last time I ate steak, I cut the entire thing up at once so I wouldn’t have to keep picking up the knife.
Oh, and even at fancy dinners, I butter my roll all at once. Seems like you’d end up using more butter with the butter-and-bite method.
For the record, I’ve eaten at plenty of lunches and dinners where good table manners are important, and I’ve never been accused of being uncouth, either verbally or with unspoken looks of disgust.
Damn what a great idea! I’ll do that the next time I’m at a wedding! Ya-hoo!
Holy Moses, p_w. Not to sound mean, but that is one of the most anal things I’ve ever heard. Granted, if you’re at some expensive restaurant where the chef actually does work to make your plate look real purdy, you’re going to look at the plate for a second to appreciate it before you start devouring. Once people are ruining your “art” by dissecting it and shoving it into their oh-so-cultured maws, the point really becomes moot.
I honestly can’t say I’ve ever sat and looked at my companion’s dishes several minutes into dinner to see the state of their food placement and make sure it still looks nice.
Within a minute of the food arriving everyone is too concerned with eating said food and trying to maintain some sort of discussion. The aesthetics of each other’s plates ceases to be of any concern at all. If it ever was to begin with.
Deadlyaccurate gets tired of picking up the knife???
In non-US western countries, only using a fork is not good table manners in itself, let alone cutting up all your steak before eating any of it.
What has happened to North American table manners??
Is this a civil liberties issue like not wearing a seat belt? (one of the looniest things I have heard in a long while).
Deadlyaccurate gets tired of picking up the knife???
In non-US western countries, only using a fork is not good table manners in itself, let alone cutting up all your steak before eating any of it.
What has happened to North American table manners??
Is this a civil liberties issue like not wearing a seat belt? (one of the looniest things I have heard in a long while).
You are correct - it is a North American thing. As a Brit who has visited many countries and now lives in America, I also have never seen this way of eating except in the USA (and the aforementioned small children and parent). It is quite common for Americans to hold the knife and fork as if they have never used them together before, cut one or many small pieces, put the knife down, transfer the fork to the right hand, then eat until the small pieces have run out. Then repeat.
This is only one of many, many differences in eating and restaurant etiquette betwwen US and UK. You get used to it. Most things are just “different”, not inherently right or wrong. But I’ll never get used to restaurants expecting me to use the same dirty fork for course after course. The better restaurants do not do this, but many do.
Ummm…am I amiss to think that “proper etiquette” says one is supposed to break off buns into bite-sized pieces at fancy restaurants? At least this is what I’ve been taught by the few upper-crust folk that I know. Apparently, it is uncouth to slice your bun in half and butter it all at once. Butter each piece separately.
You are correct, pulykamell. The word “bread” was used as a metonym by partly_warmer, to represent food in general.
Of course, one breaks off and butters bits of bread roll as one goes along - one does not break the roll into several bits and butter them all before starting.
Ok, that’s as unmannerly as I’m getting… Short answer, I’d never order anything with feta in it when you were there.