I’d like a simple answer to the question “Why is it poor manners to cut up your steak all at once?” There has not been one good reason for it, other than that it is one of those rules of etiquette that everybody must follow in polite company.
Yes, I do want a solid reason for every rule. I’m a stickler for that sort of thing. Etiquette as a sign of respect for social company is all well and good for me, but I fail to see how cutting up your steak in one go is a breach of that. I don’t want a philosophical discussion about the place of etiquette in everyday society, I just want a simple clear-cut reason why it would be an offense to eat your steak that way.
So I do think a “What do I care what they think?” is an appropiate response when faced with the dilemma of an issue as stupid as this. In my mind (and keep in my mind I want proof refuting my thoughts), this is not a case of respect on all parties but a case of one group “putting on airs” for no reason other than the airs.
Anyway, I’m not as vehement about the issue as the above text makes me sound. I just think the issue is strange. I don’t even think it’s an issue at all. And, for the record, I cut up my steak by the same strip-then-bite-size method as a previous poster.
In fact, perusing around on other websites about this whole etiquette deal and the rules surrounding makes me increasingly think that all you people who follow them to the letter are a bunch of weirdos. But that would make me seem openly hostile to the idea, and that would be impolite of me.
"Honey, I have a totally anal request to make. I know there’s no good reason for it, but it just freaks me out when you cut your meat up all at once. It’s ridiculous of me, but it still makes me feel nervous and embarrassed when you do it.
“And I know I’m asking you to do something totally arbitrary here, to inconvenience yourself just to calm a quirk on my part. So if you say no, I totally understand. Or if there’s something I do or don’t do that bugs you, this is a good time to tell me: I’m giving you a bargaining chip.”
If you engage him on any other front, he’s unlikely (I think) to pay attention. “Dries out the meat?” He’s been eating this way for decades: obviously he’s content with the quality of the meat. “Bad etiquette?” Obviously he’s unconcerned by the arbitrary kinds of etiquette. “Offends the chef?” That’s presuming quite a bit – that the chef is around, that the chef is paying attention, that the chef gives a flip.
Nope: it’s your wacky neurosis, and you should beg his indulgence on this matter, and offer to indulge some silliness of his in return. Maybe you can appeal to his magnanimity.
I was taught not to cut off more than a second bit of anything before eating the first. The reason given is that eating is a social occasion, not a primarily mechanical process to see how quickly food can be cut up and stuffed down.
[subjective mode] I’d rather not watch somebody cut up everything on their plate into an unrecognizable mess. The motion of ripping everything apart tends to be frenetic, and the result looks like dog food.
If you want to look at a jumble of food, why not have the cook cut everything up before it gets to the table with a power carving knife? [/subjective mode]
This is all to say, there is some foundation for the practice. Also I’d agree with the earlier comment that it’s better to keep meat hot (or bread unstale) as long as possible.
If the cutting is not done in a frenzied manner, but is done calmly and non-distractingly, is that alright? As for the results looking unappetizing to you, so what? Someone at your table may order something that looks gross to you from the start, is that a breach of etiquette? If I don’t like looking at fish, and someone at the table orders it, are they being rude?
None of the reasons presenting against eating your food this way have made any sense to me at all, with the exception of the “losing heat/juices” argument, which effects the eater only. Everything else seems, no offense, to come down to an utterly bizarre fixation on the part of the complainers.
I don’t see why it’s disrespectful to the chef. I mean, come on? Chef? In most cases, we’re talking about a cook. We’re not talking about a Martha Stewart-esque prepared plate here, we’re talking about normal food. It’s a steak, for god’s sake. It was meant to be cut up, eaten, digested by stomach acid. If you spent time preparing it, that’s great, but this isn’t scuplture. It’s food. Whether you cut it up all at once, or a little bit at a time, in the end, it won’t make a difference. I could maybe see it as disrespectful if it was Wolfgang Puck preparing your meal, but really, this one is just stretching it.
Well, I’m not complaining. I’ve never corrected somebody cutting food up in a strange way that I can remember. Podkayne asked if what she was saying was reasonable, which I think it is.
If somebody was cutting up their food all at once, slowly, that would be sort of ok. I don’t know whether that’s the common practice, but I do know a couple people who tear it apart as though there were some kind of time limit. It’s like watching a dog.
I like unusual dishes, and yes, if I think somebody’s going to be grossed out by what I’m eating, I take it elsewhere. Or don’t order it. (As a matter of fact I know this great Japanese dish where if you look closely when it arrives…it’s moving! Great!)
I prefer the style and grace imparted by some of the table manner rules. In expensive restaurants, they’re seen a lot. If I took a woman (or a man) out who chewed with her mouth open, reached over my plate, stuck her knife in the butter when there was a butter knife… well, hey. Obviously she doesn’t have the same idea of an elegant meal as I do.
I’m not quite sure about is why people get offended about having their manners corrected. If a waiter comes over and corrects the way I’m eating something in a foreign restaurant, I thank them. (I’d do the same if one of my table companions corrected something I didn’t know about.) But others seem to take mortal offense. Different styles, I guess.
I think some of the “I need a logical explanation of every ettiquette rule” or the the “It’s arbitrary, so why should I do it” crowd are seriously missing the boat on this. Manners aren’t there to make YOU feel more comfortable, they’re there to make EVERYONE ELSE comfortable. It might be more comfortable, but you wouldn’t wear jeans and a T-Shirt to a wedding, or God forbid, a funeral, would you? It’s about respecting others, not holding yourself in such high regard that “I can do whatever I want!”
And yes, if Mr. P, after being told this particular behavior in public embarrasses his wife, and he continues to do so, it IS unmannerly and ungentlemanly.
BTW, those of you who advocate the “manners don’t mean anything” position are dissing your own parents, especially your mothers, whether you realize it or not. No mother on this planet teaches her children to be rude. Trust me, it’s a particular gene they have or something. Even Nero’s mother taught him to be polite–hey no fiddling after 9pm, people are trying to sleep!
Manners are not about elitism or classism, they’re about treating other people the same (or better) than you would like to be treated. Kinda like the Golden Rule.
I never had the slightest clue that this was poor ettiquette until I read this thread. I don’t always I go about it any particular way myself. Depends what I’m eating, I suppose. Sometimes I’ll cut all my meat up at once so that I can pay full attention to the conversation . . . getting all the distracting part over with at once. It never occurred to me that anyone might find this rude.
I would not notice or care if anyone else did this at the table with me. It sounds like a relatively small thing in the grand scheme.
But how is cutting your meat in a slightly different manner than someone else making them uncomfortable? Wouldn’t bitching about it (which Pod has enough class not to do) make them uncomfortable?
Expecting others to change their habits to do things YOUR way is “Making others uncomfortable”.
I agree with you here. But I am at a loss to see how the action described in the OP is even remotely the same. Some people in this thread are acting as through Mr. Podkayne is some unbearably uncouth lout and even have even gone so far as to compare him to a child or an animal, and I still cannot figure out what he is doing that is so wrong that it warrants that kind of response.
Some people who cut up their food all at once act like starving jackals, so everyone who does so, even if they do so decorously, is deserving of the same contempt? That’s like saying all smokers are rude because some of them block the doors at work and litter everywhere. Little children have their meat cut up by their mothers, so if someone does it themselves they are acting like a child? (That’s the most nonsensical argument of all, as far as I’m concerned. The whole reason mothers do this is because little kids can‘t do it for themselves.) It LOOKS like he MAY bolt down all his meat, once cut, at one time and make a pig of himself? Well, if he DOESN’T, I guess that’s a moot point, isn’t it?
It’s nice that you do this, but is it a point of etiquette? I mean, if the meal is still alive (ewww!), then yes, it would fall on the person ordering defer to the gag reflexes of his table mates and not get it. But what about something more mild? I dislike the smell of feta cheese and can’t eat anything with it as an ingredient, so does it fall upon my eating companions to eschew it too? See, I’m not convinced by your argument that the meat looks gross to you, and you wouldn’t want to eat it that way, therefore it’s bad for someone else to do it.
Good table manners are wonderful things. YEAH FOR TABLE MANNERS!! But this particular rule is so outdated and illogical that I think it’s time to reexamine it. Hello, we’re Dopers here. Should we really be doing stuff because “it’s the way it’s always done!”?
Dressing inappropriately for a wedding or a funeral would be desrepectful to the bride&groom/deceased and the family. The way you cut your meat affects no one!
Actually, I think he is being the patient one here. She has been nagging him repeatedly over something incredibly trivial because that’s the way she wants it. Which is easier, for him to change a habit of years, or for her to just let it go?
First, I agree that bitching about it would be a much greater transgression.
I have an answer to your question, though, that will sound especially lame, given that we are on the SDMB, but there it is.
Because it (cutting up your meat in bite size pieces) is not done that way. Yes, that’s my only answer–It’s not done that way. It may seem silly, arbitrary, capircious (sp), or whatever, but it’s actually not, because that’s how others expect communal dining to take place. Hint: the emphasis is on other people, not myself, or yourself, as the case may be. If you went to a planet where people were expected to put their napkins on their heads, it would be impolite not to do so.
So if he insisted that all of his beverages be served in a sippy cup, that would be OK? After all, how he drinks his drinks affects no one! What if he wanted a baby bottle? Is that OK too?
Disrespecting your wife (spouse, SO, friend, parent, brother, sister, oh wait ANYONE) in public is just wrong, IMHO. If you’re with someone, and they express distaste with something you’re doing, why not stop doing it? Are we all that self-centered?
At the risk of going against the crowd, I have to agree with the original OP that cutting one’s meat up first and then eating it is not good table manners.
However, I think that there are some cultural differences here. I have never seen anyone do this (other than a mother for a child) in any country I have lived in (England, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Iran, Holland). So maybe this is a North American thing? The other table manner that I have noticed Merkins do that we don’t usually do, is the cut the food up and then swap the fork over to scoop up into the mouth. Here, this would be considered slightly odd, if not a little un-ettiquited!
Perhaps the culture of ‘fast-food’ is to blame. I have noticed poor table manners creeping into society here. The speedier one can eat, the better - possibly hence the scoop and eat method and the cut-steak-all-up-then-eat method?
No, it would not. I didn’t give blanket approval for him to do every silly-ass thing he might want to do. Doing either of those things would draw unwanted attention from probably everyone in the restaurant, and would legitimately shame his wife. However, whether he cuts his meat all at once or bite by bite, provided he is discreet, would not be noticed by anyone except those who are morbidly fascinated by meat cutting. Re-read this thread and see how many people didn’t even know this was a rule.
He is not disrespecting her. Do you thing every request made by a loved one should be followed, regardless of whether it’s reasonable or not? It I were the one being corrected, I would probably give it a try, but if I were lectured time after time I would probably build up sufficient resentment to where I wouldn’t feel so charitable. Why are you only calling for compromise on his part? If you’re with someone, and you notice a minor but harmless quirk in their behavior, why not just accept it as part of the package? Are we all that self-centered?
Quite a few people here make good points about how to handle the situation. Truth is, really, there isn’t just one form of good table manners and not everybody will agree on what is the “best”.
However, I tend to agree with the OP and think that table manners are really important. Whether you subscribe to it or not, the book Tiffany’s Table Manners for Teenagers (THE American bible for good table manners) says you should ‘hold the fork in the left hand, the knife in the right and cut one piece at a time. Don’t switch hands when you eat.’ On the other hand, when I grew up I can remember switching the fork between hands to eat and being told never to cut more than 3 pieces at a time. When I moved to Europe, I started eating the Tiffany’s way and still do today. I find it more practical, more elegant and a lot less attention drawing.
It seems to me that if you really want him to change you can’t tell him to change. What you really need to do is get him out to dinner with someone he respects that eats properly (insert your definition here) and that one weird look that he gets when he’s ‘cutting up all his meat’ will be enough for him to change on his own. Anyway, nobody changes unless they want to change, so you have to find a subtle way for him to feel the need. I doubt this will happen if you’re eating in front of the TV or just with parents, but in a social situation and with the seeds you’ve already planted, you’d probably find him quickly adapting to the ‘norm’.
By the way, good manners have a way of coming back to you in rewarding ways. Hold that door, say thank you, leave a tip, eat in a respectable manner - people notice these things and form favorable impressions. Maybe they’ll even invite you to dinner sometime (and of course they’ll be Chinese and you’ll have to teach hubby how to run chopsticks…:rolleyes: ). Good luck!
Manners are one of the ways people judge your character. It is one thing when you are alone with your spouse or with friends, quite another when you are in company with business associates or in a similar professional setting.
If you are invited by the boss to a private club to play golf with a customer, you don’t show up in a t-shirt and grubby shorts, although that is fine in a normal weekend outing with buddies. You also don’t do “Happy Gilmore” imitations (although “Caddyshack” references are always good).
In this case, the wife is not scolding her husband, but coaching him. The intention is to pevent embarrasment in the future. If I saw a business associate act this way in a professional setting, I would be reluctant to send this person out again. People do judge you by small things. I think if you cut up everything on your plate into bite size pieces at a Bennigans, there would be no issue, but at a more elegant setting, manners matter.
