How do I help an abuser?

[SpoilerVirgin]

@jackdavinci

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

Getting back to the more general question, in a situation where neither party is in the wrong per se, but one party needs to set personal boundaries, how do they communicate that without seeming judgmental or triggering defense mechanisms?

You need to realize that whether you seem judgmental or trigger defense mechanisms is entirely in the mind of the other party. The best you can do is be polite (speak softly, don’t use abusive language). You can’t change or control how someone else will react.

More importantly, setting personal boundaries means that you, and you alone, determine how you and the other party will interact. It’s not about making them leave you alone; it’s about you telling them what you will and will not do. In order to do this, you need to be aware that the other party is likely to take it badly; your only recourse is to decide how you will behave when they do.

[Clothahump]

@jackdavinci

Yes I’m the adult child in the equation. As an adult, the behavior is no longer truly abusive to me since I have greater personal resources than I did as a child, although it can occasionally trigger my sensitivities.

And maybe even then, abuse might be too strong. Let’s call it aggressive negativity. I meant abusive more in its effects than in its intent.

It might not be abuse, but the staring/glaring was definitely as intense, scary, and negative as the yelling.

I really would like to help her if possible. It took a long time to gain awareness of my own issues and figure out how to extricate myself. I wish I had had someone who recognized what I was doing and helped me overcome it.

One of the first things to realize is that you have the ability to tell this person to shut the hell up. And you should use it. Lay it out frankly - you’re tired of it, you don’t want to hear it any more. And if they persist, decrease their involvement in your life.

[TokyoBayer]

The relationship between parents and children, even adult children, is so completely different than others that not mentioning it is a waste of time for everyone.

@jackdavinci

Ha, that’s a good point. Any suggestions for books for them? The previously mentioned Dance of Anger looks like a good start.

People who are abusers are not, by definition, normal, and each has his or her own justifications.

Like many others here, I also think there’s not much you can do to change her, especially as her child. It’s better to work on setting boundaries for yourself.

[Blackberry]

I don’t know about every type of abuser, but I think there are many types you absolutely cannot help. Any attempts will just be responded to with manipulation, and your attempt at helping invariably opens you up to more manipulation. There is exactly 0 chance of changing things when your intentions are good, and the other person’s aren’t. Some may say that many abusive people do have good intentions, but I think that’s mostly just wishful thinking (which I’m very guilty of myself).

[Nava]

My experience has been that whenever I tried to get my mother to change, she didn’t. Once I set out to change myself, established boundaries, got the ability to say “I’m going to my house now, bye”, etc… well, she didn’t change either, but she lost a large chunk of her ability to hurt me.

[kambuckta]

Let me get this straight:

Your mother yells at you on occasion, and gives you the ‘The Look’ and you’re now a victim of parental abuse?

Oh for fuck’s sake.

:rolleyes:

[elbows]

You cannot push a rope, my friend. And sooner, or later, in life we come up against the hard fact that we cannot change our parent, no matter what their behaviour.

The only thing you can change is your reaction to them. Your problem is not her glaring and yelling, it’s that it ‘works’ on you, upsets you, hits your buttons. Because she knows them all intimately.

You need to get yourself to a place of complete indifference to her demeanor. Imagine her a posturing, pouting, attention whoring, 8yr old in a snit. Would you reward that child with attention, and encourage that behaviour? No, you wouldn’t, no one would. Instead you would feign complete and total indifference. Her looks and glares are only fun for her while they are hitting your buttons. If they don’t appear to connect, she loses her payback. It could take some time, she’s not used to you being armed with indifference.

Here’s a good way to help yourself. Develop a detailed exit strategy. Decide, before going in, at what point the line is crossed. If she glares, stares, yells, that’s your signal, you’re enacting the exit strategy. It should include, how you’ll get away, (bus or taxi fare?), the excuse you’re going to make, (“You’ll have to excuse me, I just got a text from a friend in need!”, or whatever!), and the spine to see it through, once or twice, very likely.

Having such a plan in place, will give you enormous self assurance. Knowing you can pull that trigger, whenever you feel the need, will, surprisingly sometimes, cause you to not need too. The knowledge, that you could just walk out, really does seem to boost both confidence and the required indifference.

Part of you already recognizes, I think, the problem here is really sort of a codependence thing. It takes two to do the dancing. Kudos for recognizing work needs be done on this relationship. Please recognize the only productive work you can do will be on yourself.

I wish you nothing but Good Luck, it’s a very difficult journey you’re on.

[Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge]

@kambuckta

Let me get this straight:

Your mother yells at you on occasion, and gives you the ‘The Look’ and you’re now a victim of parental abuse?

Oh for fuck’s sake.

:rolleyes:

I hate to agree with this, but I thought the same thing. A “glare” is hardly in the same boat as what some people posting in this very thread went through.

[Nava]

@elbows

Here’s a good way to help yourself. Develop a detailed exit strategy. Decide, before going in, at what point the line is crossed. If she glares, stares, yells, that’s your signal, you’re enacting the exit strategy. It should include, how you’ll get away, (bus or taxi fare?), the excuse you’re going to make, (“You’ll have to excuse me, I just got a text from a friend in need!”, or whatever!), and the spine to see it through, once or twice, very likely.

But if you use an excuse, you’re not setting boundaries, you’re not making it clear that you’re leaving because you’re not willing to accept that behavior. That needs to be made clear, which behavior gets a view of your back, and which gets rewarded.

[Anaamika]

@kambuckta

Let me get this straight:

Your mother yells at you on occasion, and gives you the ‘The Look’ and you’re now a victim of parental abuse?

Oh for fuck’s sake.

:rolleyes:

Is that what she said? She said “verbal/psychological abuse and glares”. Perhaps she could clarify, because I’ve also been told it wasn’t abuse, not really, and it most definitely was.

[elbows]

The point is, the OP finds it abusive, abrasive and manipulative. That’s enough for me.

And, I don’t think making an ‘excuse’ to leave matters. You’re not setting boundaries for Mom, you’re setting boundaries for yourself, what you will and will not tolerate.

Trying to ‘explain’ to a Mom that will not ‘hear’, is just starting the music for the codependent dance to begin, not to mention a waste of your lifeforce. You’re dancing to a different tune, but you’re still dancing. She’ll get the point, when you up and leave, or she won’t. It doesn’t matter. You’re not doing it for her. You’re doing it for you!

[TruCelt]

@elbows

The point is, the OP finds it abusive, abrasive and manipulative. That’s enough for me.

. . .

QFT

You asked about setting boundaries: the best book I know of for this is “You Can’t Say That to Me.” Although it’s primary focus is verbal abuse, it’s an excellent manual for freeing yourself from any abusive encounter.

My general rules for avoding dysfunction:

• He who remains calm wins. Not the battle, not the war, but life in general.

• Decide what kind of a person you are going to be, and then be that regardless of other peoples behavior.

• Do not respond to inappropriate behavior.

• Make friends with silence,
• Practice the sympathetic smile,
• Refuse to engage,
• Pretend you can’t hear rude words or opening gamuts.

• Say it once, then act upon it. “I’m not going to tolerate your evil glares.” and the next time, every time, it happens, walk away silently.

• Think of yourself as your own caring parent. Would you allow small child to suffer through this tension/anger/unpleasantness? If not, get yourself out of there.

[FlyByNight512]

@kambuckta

Let me get this straight:

Your mother yells at you on occasion, and gives you the ‘The Look’ and you’re now a victim of parental abuse?

Oh for fuck’s sake.

:rolleyes:

@Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge

I hate to agree with this, but I thought the same thing. A “glare” is hardly in the same boat as what some people posting in this very thread went through.

Wow, reading comprehension fail. Usually when someone starts a thread by saying there’s been verbal and psychological abuse, I figure they’re in a better position to judge than I am, and furthermore they have no obligation to prove it to anyone. Seizing on a detail mentioned in passing and declaring that there was no abuse is ridiculously insulting and pretentious.

[phouka]

@jackdavinci

And maybe even then, abuse might be too strong. Let’s call it aggressive negativity. I meant abusive more in its effects than in its intent.

You’re getting really good advice from the others here (except kambukta and Living Well. Please ignore them.), I really want to address this statement.

jackdavinci, abuse is not too strong of a word, and it doesn’t matter that your mother’s intent was not abusive. Hell, probably 90% of abusers don’t intend to be abusive. They simply don’t care if they hurt someone so long as they get their way, and they will deny, deflect, or delude themselves into believing that they didn’t actually hurt anyone.

Do not allow a pointless discussion of blame to divert you from recognizing that what your mother did and still does is wrong. It opens you up to even more injury from her.

[jackdavinci]

Thanks phouka, I tried to make the OP as general as possible because I sincerely wanted to learn more about the issue and not create a thread for sympathy or venting.

I’m not sure why some posters need to have a pissing contest about what is really abuse, and how only the person who has been harmed the most of anybody is allowed to talk about it.

I’ll be clear - I don’t consider myself a victim. I don’t consider people that have caused me harm to be villains. I’m not interested in sympathy. Validation does feel good, but I’m not seeking that either. I’m pretty much willing to forgive any behavior, as long as it stops happening.

I came in looking to find a way to deal with situations like this, partially because of my own relationship, but also because I care about people, and I see other people fall into dysfunction or not know how to handle conflict properly in their various relationships, because of their own issues or because of ignorance, and I don’t want to feel useless to help.

I also feel that the general issues of healing dysfunction, overcoming harmful patterns, communicating lovingly and effectively while experiencing difficult emotions, conflict resolution, etc, are things that are constantly tripping people up and that society in general doesn’t give us the tools to deal with unless we seek them out. I figure that by educating myself, I help stop the spread of ignorance.

In any case, my intentions are honorable and genuine. I’m sorry if anyone has been offended.

Thanks again to those with positive helpful suggestions and information.

[elbows]

In any case, my intentions are honorable and genuine. I’m sorry if anyone has been offended.

Never questioned your intentions or read anything less than genuine. Nothing to be sorry about. Not offended in the slightest.

Dysfunction thrives and worsens because people are too timid to step up to the work of changing dynamics. Yet we’ve all seen spectacular changes of dynamic via the simplest of things, on occasion. Still we recoil, especially when it’s our parents. Even the mildest confrontation, with those so capable of wounding us, to our very core, is so intimidating, to be sure. I say be brave, dare to. People want healthier relationships, but they are stuck. They don’t know how to get there, is all.

[AnaMen]

I don’t think the question of whether something falls into the category of “abuse” is just one of semantics. If we define “abuse” as anything the would-be abuser does that frightens the would-be victim or makes them feel bad, the only real solution would be to flee all uncomfortable situations, which is hardly practical or necessary. When one is the victim of parental abuse, figuring out what constitutes abusive behavior is no simple thing. Abusive behavior seems normal when it happens all the time. If the abuser was abused as well, it’s no wonder that they may not see their behavior as abusive.
Since the person you have the highest likelihood of successfully changing is yourself, your reaction to being yelled at, glared at, etc. is where to start. Figure out in advance where you will draw the line and what you will do when it’s crossed. I suggest one warning and then departure. If departure is impossible at that moment, simply refuse to continue verbal interaction until the person will modify their approach. Just calmly repeat something like “I’m not going to discuss this with you until you are able to speak to me nicely/rationally/calmly/etc.” She may or may not change her behavior, but by taking the upper hand you can escape the abuse.

[Bam_Boo_Gut]

You can only help her by setting your boundaries very firmly and sticking to them. She only gets away with her shennanigans because you allow it. If you don’t lie down people can’t walk all over you.

I had to learn to pause before responding. I’m very eager to say “yes” and I had to learn to say “no” or “I’ll think about it”.