General answers welcome, but if it helps, the specific case parameters are parent-abuser relationship with adult child, with no physical abuse, but rather verbal, psychological, and whatever kind of abuse you would call stares/glares.
Specifically, not looking to get into a blame/shame game - I’m sure she isn’t even totally aware of what is happening and is in any case just perpetuating patterns from her own child hood. I don’t want to dwell on the past, I just want to help her transition to new behavioral patterns.
In particular, I’m concerned about finding gentle ways to even broach or phrase the issue to avoid triggering defense mechanisms. Or maybe I need some even more circumspect technique?
Well yeah, but the specific issues still need to be broached somehow. When she has gone to counseling in the past it seemed to only validate her sense of victimhood.
The “victim” of the abuse is the one who needs help here, not the abuser. There is no need to remain within earshot of someone verbally abusing you. When the abusive behavior begins, it’s time to walk away.
Counting staring/glaring as “abuse” is a bit much and trivializes actual abuse, in my opinion. The desire to stop another person from looking at you as they please strikes me as unreasonably controlling. Sometimes, people around you act in a way you would prefer they did not. This does not automatically make it “abusive.” If the abusive person has no audience because the “victims” depart the abuse will stop.
Record the abusive behavior on video and play it back for her – assuming you’ve gotten permission from this person to meddle in her life. My assumption is that she has asked you for help, and somehow, the obvious – good counseling – is off the table for some reason. When you play the video back, ask her to reflect on her behavior and try to figure out how her behavior was hurtful to those around her.
Who is this person to you? Because, honestly, unless you’re the adult child in question, and you’re willing to sever all contact with her if she doesn’t change her behavior, there’s not a lot you can do.
It would be different if she’d approached you, asking for help, but you’re talking about broaching the subject, which leads me to believe that she hasn’t asked for help. That being the case, there really is no way to do this. You can’t make her change. You can’t make her want to change. You can’t even make her recognize that she ought to change.
It’s a noble urge, but it’s just not going to happen. Don’t beat yourself up over it.
Yes I’m the adult child in the equation. As an adult, the behavior is no longer truly abusive to me since I have greater personal resources than I did as a child, although it can occasionally trigger my sensitivities.
And maybe even then, abuse might be too strong. Let’s call it aggressive negativity. I meant abusive more in its effects than in its intent.
It might not be abuse, but the staring/glaring was definitely as intense, scary, and negative as the yelling.
I really would like to help her if possible. It took a long time to gain awareness of my own issues and figure out how to extricate myself. I wish I had had someone who recognized what I was doing and helped me overcome it.
So, in plain English, the abuser is your mother? The way you un-explained things, my brain is feeling a bit abused right now trying to decipher what is it you’re trying to say.
The long version: You can only control you. You can’t help other people change their behavior unless they want help. And even then, they have to be in the lead taking responsibility for changing themselves. I know reforming a parent is a very alluring fantasy, but it really doesn’t happen that way.
What you can do is work on building up your own boundaries. Get counseling, if you’re not already. Think through what kinds of behavior you’ll accept from her and what’s not acceptable, such as yelling or indirectly insulting you. Go ahead and set those limits at a very conservative point, as conservative as you need to feel comfortable. End the phone call or physically leave when she crosses that line. You can’t make her a better person, but by saying “this is how you will interact with me, or not at all” you can form a healthier relationship. I highly, highly recommend getting professional advice to coach you through this one. It’s pretty intensely difficult and very complicated, especially since most abused kids are raised to have no boundaries at all.
(Concerning staring/glaring: abusers can make damn near anything into a weapon. If jackdavinci says it was frightening, I have no trouble believing him.)
I think it would very healthy for you to broach the topic. But be sure you understand your motives and the likely outcomes. She is not likely to change her behavior at this point in her life. You are likely to feel better knowing that* she knows* that you know this is wrong.
If she is horrified to find that she’s hurting you, and wants to stop, you may also be able to agree on a signal (As non-judgemental as possible-not a pointed finger for example) that you will give when she is in the act of crossing the line. The more likely outcome is that she enjoys the power and begins to use it in an even more destructive manner. Strangely, that may free you; it will allow you to consider the source and roll your eyes derisively rather than deep down wondering if she’s right.
I am almost always on the side of confronting bad behvior, just know that if she’s bad, or even just damaged, it’s probably not going to change anything. If you can go in for no other motive than the satisfaction of having called a bully’s bluff, then God speed.
Yes. Sorry, it was my original intention to have a more general discussion than just about me and this particular relationship, but the inciting idea was the relationship between my mother and I.
Getting back to the more general question, in a situation where neither party is in the wrong per se, but one party needs to set personal boundaries, how do they communicate that without seeming judgmental or triggering defense mechanisms?
I wouldn’t really expect it to work either (if she wanted to change, the counseling she’s already had should have done something). But, if you want to try, I’d be absolutely blunt about it. You say she may not be aware of what she’s doing, so subtlety won’t do her any favors.
“Your behaviors X, Y, and Z [be specific] are hurtful to be because ABC. In order to repair the damage those behaviors have done to our relationship, you will need to address the root causes in therapy.”
Maybe ask her where she thinks the behaviors come from and why she feels compelled to use them on you. Perhaps she’ll agree to address them in therapy, perhaps she won’t. Or perhaps she’ll agree and still nothing will change.
Don’t go into this expecting to change or “save” her. The odds against that are really high. Just protect yourself first, however that works for you. Cut her off completely, limit your time together, resolve to call her on it and leave immediately every time she starts in on you.
Again, I think bluntness/lack of subtlety is your friend. “Mom, I need you to respect my boundaries. When you do X, I feel Y. So please don’t.” And if she does it again, leave (either for that day, or permanently, depending on how much boundary-defending you’re willing to put up with… because it will likely occupy a great deal of the time you spend together).
In terms of not seeming judgmental, make sure you are talking about her behavior, not making any commentary on her character. She may or may not be able to distinguish the difference, but that’s on her, not you.
I think the only thing you can do is change YOUR behavioral patterns. It might take some thinking and work to figure out what works for you and what you are comfortable with.
If she acts inappropriately, you could remove yourself from the situation. Or call her on it. Or there’s probably other options too.
There’s a few good resources out there…Toxic Parents (a book) is one. I found The Dance of Anger to be helpful, but it’s aimed at women (not sure why, the general idea is good for all).
Don’t waste your time trying to reason with your mother. I, and many, many, other adult children of abusive parents, have tried many, many, times to talk to the parent about their behaviour. They deny everything, accuse you of abusing them first, accuse you of being over-sensitive and overreacting to everything they say/do, and so on ad nauseam. I’ve heard of people who wrote letters to the offending parent (usually the mother) and the mother tried to have their son/daughter sectioned under the mental health act (or equivalent) for attacking them in such a vicious manner.
There are many sites, and blogs, and books about having a dysfunctional relationship with your mother, have a google for narcissistic mothers.
While I fully understand the urge to try to repair the damage and form a ‘proper’ relationship with your mother, sadly it’s not going to happen. You have to learn to live with it, but take solace from the fact that you are not alone.
What I’d do is something like one polite attempt to steer away from the boundary (change the topic, usually), one firm attempt if that doesn’t work (“I don’t want to discuss that with you”, “Please do not use that tone of voice with me”), and then removing yourself from the situation if that is ignored. You can’t control how the other person reacts, though. Especially if they have a history of being overbearing or controlling, they’re going to react badly when you demonstrate that hey, they don’t get to control you. It takes long-term consistence to get people like that to respect boundaries, and it’s not fun, but it can happen.