Trust your instincts.
Stranger
Please let me echo that.
And you owe no one any explanations or justifications for why you don’t owe her shit.
You are so right and you expressed it so clearly in just the right number of words. Kids will be safe with you.
Another vote that this sounds perfect, “you don’t owe her shit” and #1 keep kidlet safe.
Agree, and to add…a kid will learn that not all families function like the one they are immediately in. Even when a parent is doing a good job, there is no “right” way, and not every relationship within a family is what it’s “supposed” to be (or what may be depicted in the media). An important lesson is that when someone treats you like crap, you dont have to accept it - being family doesn’t give people a pass to be an a-hole. The OP’s child is young, but appears to be both inqusitive and perceptive, and what’s quoted above is a gentle way to introduce the idea that not every family operates the same way, or even very well, even within their own extended family.
Agreed. I’d stay away from saying they are sick, since as he grows older he could reasonably conclude that he is ‘sick’ in a similar way. Focussing on the fact they were bad parents and treated you badly seems better.
I’m not sure there is a “best” approach. My wife’s family and mine both had “issues.” Some estrangement, other just “coldness/distance.” Some of it was significant enough (such as FIL’s bigamy) that it was challenging it not impossible to avoid any mention around the kids. Adding in, when our kids were young we decided we would always answer fully and honestly any question they asked.
I’m not sure how well we coulda navigated those issues while managing our household, careers, etc. But today, my 3 kids are not as close to each other or their cousins as I would have hoped. Likely that is largely just who they are. But looking back, I wonder if I could’ve modeled different behavior.
“No,” is a complete sentence.
Before I had my first child, I really wanted to tell my kids outrageous “facts” and see what stuck.
Instead I tell them the truth, and I am mind-boggled by what they know. A trivial example is that my (then 5 yr old) son knew what a coprolite - fossilised dinosaur poo - is. It is actually far more interesting to join them in search of facts. I mean, high end perfumes occasionaly rely on ambergris, which is whale vomit?
My ex-wife and I have a difficult relationship, but we both try to shield the kids from our adult issues. But if they directly ask me a question about it, I have to be honest and as impartial as I am able.
I do this all the time, but only when it doesn’t matter. My failsafe is that if they ask me, “Are you joking?” I’ll never lie in answer to that.
Besides being hilarious, it will, I hope, promote a healthy skepticism in them.
One thing that worked with my kid for other stuff was giving a brief explanation and then askijg if he wanted more. So when he asked , at maybe 6, “what is the joke with “69”?”, I said “its about sex. I can explain if you’d like , but I think it will make you uncomfortable”, and he did NOT want more.
Yours may not have a brain that works that way, but just something like “its a very complicated story, and it involves things that were very sad. It has nothing to do with our family and how we feel about each other. I can explain more, but I think it would be uncomfortable to hear”.
If he wants to hear, tell him a little more and let him contol how many details he gets.
Really good point! Good advice for having difficult discussions with adults, too.
We had the talk after bedtime reading (That Cat in the Hat Comes Back. My son is delighted by smaller things that compare to bigger things, so the smaller cats inside the hats inside smaller cats is super exciting right now.)
First we talked about what makes a good parent. We used his Baby Beep as an illustration, as that is his child right now. He takes it everywhere and they have dinner together and afterward he brushes its teeth. We talked about hugs and love, and brushing teeth, and feeling feelings, and especially safety rules.
Then I told him my parents couldn’t be good parents and so as a safety rule, we don’t see them.
When he asked “'Cuz why?” because that’s his thing right now, I just replied, “Because they aren’t safe.”
He asked when we will see them, and I said, maybe when you’re much older. But right now, to keep you safe, we don’t see them.
Then he got distracted by something else, but when I got up to leave, he insisted on holding my hand to the threshold of his door, which is pretty cute. I could spend just as much time bragging about how sweet and affectionate he is as I do about how freaking smart he is. I really got the whole package with this kid.
I think he understands.
As an aside, when he was first diagnosed at age three, he had an extensive vocabulary but most of it was rote memorization. I’ve seen his language skills grow but there’s always that missing conversational piece. Just this week we’ve had several exchanges where I feel like we are actually having a conversation. The most in-depth conversation was about how much he enjoys peeling blisters, but today he announced, apropos of nothing, “It’s been a wonderful day!” I said, “What made it wonderful?” “Hugging Baby Beep.” I should have known.
From the point of view of a non-parent, this sounds like an excellent policy.
That is great. Made my husband laugh too.
I guess if he brings it up again we’ll see what happens.
I’ve got tons of things to say about this because I had similar issues, although my children are more neurotypical, so I don’t have that to deal with.
My father was extremely abusive and my mother was emotionally neglectful. Both grew up in similar environments.
I told my kids a bit about my family, in terms it was easy for them to understand.
My older brother raped me, our younger brother and some other boys. I gave him a chance to apologize when we were in our 40s, but he elected to tell me how much he had suffered over the years and didn’t apologize or take responsibility.
When my kids asked why we never see or talk to him, I told them he had done some bad things and I would tell them when they are 16. My son is 14 now and occasionally brings it up, mostly just reiterating that’s something that will happen. My daughter is 16 and doesn’t seem to want to know the details.
My dad is long dead so I don’t have to deal with him. If he were still alive I would’ve cut ties completely. Even if he weren’t in a position to abuse the kids, tough shit.
The single greatest responsibility parents have is to protect their children and once they go the other way to the degree of severe abuse, any obligation to them is finished.
My relationship with my mother is complicated.
As my mother was emotionally neglectful rather than abusive, I didn’t really need to protect my kids from her. She’s pretty clueless about a lot of human relationships, so my nephew and niece just naturally pulled away from her when they were in their teens.
We don’t live close to her so my kids don’t have a strong relationship with her, but they love her and I think it’s been a net positive for the kids. However, what works in my family may not work for anyone else.
“All happy families are alike, every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
I think part of it too is that I know I couldn’t put on a brave face for the sake of their relationship. Being around my Mom negatively impacts my mental health, and I want to be as mentally healthy as possible so my kid has the stability I didn’t. Then there’s the reality that our adult relationship was a lot of, “I’m talking to you, now I’m not, now I’m talking to you” that I don’t want to put him through.
Sometimes I wish I could send her pictures though. My Mom was a mechanical engineer in the 80s and it would absolutely delight her that I got a kid obsessed with math and astrophysics. I remember her trying to teach me algebra in a restaurant on the back of a napkin when I was in fourth grade. I wasn’t enthralled.
But one thing I’ll give my mother, she always let me do my own thing. I wanted to write, she gave me all I needed to to do it. The tragedy of her is how much she got right.
Absolutely!
Even if the parent has completely changed (which doesn’t sound like it’s happened in this case) and even if the adult child has done a lot of work, in some cases the dynamics are such that no contact is the only option.
Your son is better off with a mentality healthy you over any possible benefits from benefits from a relationship with her. It sucks, but that’s life.
Yeah, and she didn’t change, that was part of the problem. The minute my Mom lost control over me she began to abuse other people, including her own mother. When my Aunt stopped talking to her, she went after my grandmother so hard that my grandmother’s health started to fail. She had to cut off her own daughter to regain her health. The last interaction I had with my mother was her lame attempt to turn me against my Aunt. After I had told her repeatedly that I would not discuss my Aunt with her.
Who needs this drama?
I don’t mean this in a vicious way but it’s so much better without her. When I go see my Aunt and Grandma and bring my son we can just enjoy one another’s company. You don’t have to worry that something innocuous you do will be seized upon and obsessed over and used to torture you five years later. It’s a relief, really. For all of us.
I’m not happy it ended this way, I think it’s a damned tragedy, but I think anyone here knows I did my best to try to make it work, and when the other person doesn’t try, what can you do?