I don’t begin to see what “teachers that make porn” has to do with children watching porn. I mean, yes, im against a teacher giving kids access to porn, whether or not they made it. I don’t think kids who weren’t already looking at porn are going to go look at it because their teacher is in it.
Did you read the article I linked to, above, that’s specifically about one subsection of OF? Your opinions come across as almost entirely uninformed, despite your protestations.
As far as the emotion of shame is concerned, it often doesn’t have anything to do with hurting others. People in marriages feel shame WHEN THEY ARE CHEATED ON. It’s the feeling of being naked. You were intimate with someone and comfortable with that and this person debased you and shared your intimates with someone else. That is shame. Hurting others is more guilt related. Shame is a completely different emotion.
Shame is a very primitive emotion and goes way way back. To the Garden Of Eden story. I’m no Biblical literalist and I see all of that as passed down ancient stories. But if the first thing that happens is awareness of nakedness, I consider the telling significant. Awareness of being naked. I don’t know if animals can feel shame. Humans certainly can.
I have seen women take down fairly mild Youtube videos when it became apparent that men were enjoying them too much, or she was no longer comfortable with being treated that way. That sort of shame is never, ever going away for us.
That’s not cheating, that’s a threesome.
Well, that was a separate issue that I responded to @Voyager about my saying porn can be dangerous. But there could be a connection. I’ll use my young self as an example:
Bad Student (the pothead, switchblade bearer): Hey Tibby, didya hear about Miss Crabapple? She’s featured on a porn site!
Tibby: Really??? Do you have any evidence of that?
Bad Student: Of course! They don’t call me the Bad Student for nuthin’. Here look at this…
Tibby: What the??? I never dreamed Miss Crabapple was a nude contortionist. And, I never saw a Golden Retriever do THAT before!
Bad Student: What do you think of that?
Tibby: I think I’m going to have nightmares tonight.
I am feeling this could be slippery slope ( no pun intended) to say I don’t want my child taught by someone gay.
Also, some men don’t want to spend a lot of money wining and dining to get sex, or don’t want to be a dad for watching porn. Sometimes, I’ve been told, your mental fantasy isn’t quite enough.
It’s not a slippery slope–it’s exactly the same argument structure. “This person does something sexual that squicks me out, and although it doesn’t hurt anybody, I think it’d be a bad moral influence on children, or it’d be too distracting to them, so their career should be ruined.” It’s been used against unmarried teachers, against teachers who date, against teachers who divorce, against gay teachers, and (at least in a Newbury-winning novel) against teachers in a mixed-race relationship.
It’s an awful, harmful argument; and people who say that they’re making it because porn hurts women really really need to take a close look at who, exactly, is hurting which women in this case.
The other categories you cite are not creating porn. The teacher that is the subject of this thread created porn.
A child viewing any porn has been harmed. Sometimes adults have too, but they are adults. Children also have feelings about the adults in their lives and porn is a categorically different thing than something like alcohol use. A teacher appearing in porn is a completely different category.
Why is porn worse than those other categories, to the extent that it’s reasonable to destroy a teacher’s career over it?
The topic of this thread is not “children viewing porn.”
Why is porn a “completely different category” from drinking?
You’re right that shame can be complex and self-inflicted. But it came up in the context of slut-shaming, in which others tell a woman she ought to be ashamed because she did something sexual they believe to be wrong.
Yes, and a child dating an adult, or being part of a divorce, or being involved in any of the other adult sexual situations I describe, has been harmed. That’s exactly the same sort of bait-and-switch that’s happening here.
Why?
Sorry @Jay_Z you’ve fell into the breach of “nitpick to death”
When a person makes lousy arguments, pointing out their lousiness isn’t nitpicking.
Once more I recommend you actually read the article I linked above.
If you were stating things as being In Your Humble Opinion you wouldn’t be getting the pushback. But you are framing it as you stating a simple, obvious, unassailable truth that everyone knows and secretly agrees with, and that anyone who “claims” to disagree with you is a pervert prevaricating for purely prurient purposes.
I have said many times this is my opinion. In this very thread.
And @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness, you’re right I don’t argue well. If fact I don’t argue at all with people about their opinions. I’m ok with the fact that’s their opinion.
I don’t keep pressing them and saying you’re stupid and don’t know what you’re talking about because, oh my, you’re so uninformed. Because it’s their opinion. They have a right to hold any opinion they want.
And so do I.
I’ll say it again. IMHO, teachers should not be posting porn online. For any reason. Children should never be associated with or see porn. Schools should not have to deal with this.
That’s it.
Just MHO, but I think that take is… pretty optimistic. Based on the tales from the trenches I hear from elementary/middle-school teacher friends (anecdata, no objective evidentiary value claimed), I would bet substantial money that once a whisper starts going round the classroom about an online video of the class’s teacher doing ANYTHING even mildly eccentric or scandalous, at least a large majority of the students in the class are going to be impelled by curiosity and gossip-FOMO to go check it out.
Yes. I think this is the entire reason for the strength of my defence: I know that there are quite a lot of people who, while never having seen what I, a gay man, do in the bedroom with consenting adult(s), imagine that they know what it is, and that it is disgusting and morally degenerate. And that this moral degeneracy is not just behavioural, but a character flaw that would lead me to harm children.
I further know, from reading the news, that a large number of people would like to protect children from the knowledge that gay people exist, e.g. Florida (or Russia). I also grew up in such a system, where I had no clear idea of what I was, and no role models, and despite a good deal of introspection and counselling, it’s still doing me harm.
So as long as somebody’s at-work behaviour is appropriate, anyone who wants to police their life outside of that can fuck right off (so to speak). Show up at work drunk, high, or with last night’s paying hookup in tow? Fire them. Show up sober after a bender and a poorly filmed degrading sexual encounter with paying customers that is at least behind a paywall? None of anyone’s business, and not actually harming those children. Certainly not more (and here I do agree with @Beckdawrek) than the glut of freely accessible pornography that’s already available to teenagers. THAT is where I’d like to see our collective outrage and protective instincts directed.
So you’ve said 77 times in this thread, without adding anything new any of those times.
Well, according to @Darren_Garrison I never did. Restating for his edification.
What you are constantly saying is that “we all know” something to be a fact