This video of Beyonce’s sister Solange attacking Jay Z in an elevator is unsettling. You normally don’t expect people in expensive designer clothing brawling like this.
But it also highlights the current double standard in this country. She’s a woman and can get away with this violence against a guy. Imagine if the bodyguard hadn’t been there. If Jay Z had defended himself by punching her, *he would be in jail now. *
Even worse theres no public condemnation for Solange’s attack. Most of the news is speculation about what Jay Z did to provoke the attack. :dubious: Victim blaming? Emotional toll for the attacker? WTF?
This is the reality for men today. We were raised in a culture where striking a woman was shameful and forbidden. You don’t hit girls was the rule. If you saw a woman in trouble you were expected too offer any help possible. I still strongly believe in that.
Everything is turned upside down today. Films celebrate violent ass kicking women heroes. We have female boxers and MMA fighters. Woman are now being trained for combat positions in the military.
WTH are the rules for men today? Are we still expected to stoically get slapped around and kicked by angry women? Take it like a man?
Life today is so confusing. I have no desire to ever strike a woman. I find it disgusting to see women brawling. two teen girls fighting like common street thugs. Sickening. I still stop to help a lady that has car trouble. I do worry about having a gun pointed at me and getting robbed. Women today just aren’t the same as they were when I grew up. They are committing more violent crimes.
Was Jay Z hurt physically by the attack? If not, then he still has lots of options available after the fact, such as leaving her (they’re a couple, right? I don’t really keep up …). The fact is that he is probably a lot stronger than she is physically, so for him to be justified in defending himself by hitting back, he has to be in some physical danger, and he needs to temper his hitting to the minimum necessary to protect himself. If she were a trained fighter and he were in real danger, then he would be justified in doing more, but again it would be judged by the standard of the minimum necessary to protect himself. That may be a double standard, but if the positions were reversed she could have been in real danger and could have been considered to be fighting for her life. I don’t think anyone would think that he was fighting for his life.
I have not watched the video, and don’t want to. But if I were the prosecutor in that county, I would certainly consider using that video as evidence to charge her with some kind of assault. She should not be able to just attack someone, even a member of the family, without consequences to herself.
Do what thy manhood bids thee do,
from none but self expect applause;
He noblest lives and noblest dies
who stoically gets slapped around and kicked by angry broads
Personally, I also think the use of force in self-defense should tends towards the minimum necessary. I want people - of any gender, age, etc. - to be allowed to defend themselves but not to use self-defense for over-the-top violence that isn’t required.
In the tape footage I’ve seen it sure as heck looks like Solange initiated the physical violence. I fully support the bodyguard restraining her. On the other hand, if it had been Solange and Jay Z alone in the elevator I wouldn’t have a problem with Jay Z acting in his own defense.
Women should not have a free pass to inflict physical violence on men because of some notion that men should never hit women. In other words, honey, don’t start anything you can’t handle.
That’s no different than, say, an 8 year old child attacking an adult woman - there’s a large disparity in physical strength and the larger/stronger person is obligated to act with restraint appropriate to the circumstances, but still has the right to self-defense.
Spousal abuse against men is a very real problem. Theres not a lot the guy can do about. You put one bruise on a woman and you’re going to jail. A guy has no defense except to just defuse the situation with words. Cops will usually accept whatever the woman says.
I broke up a 2 year relationship with my college gf. I was sick of her temper and getting slapped around. Was it life threatening for me? No. But I don’t enjoy getting treated that way and reluctantly stopped seeing her. I wasn’t going to put up with her temper for the rest of my life.
Yes, a man has a right to defend himself. No, he doesn’t get carte blanche to beat the daylights out of someone smaller than he just because “She started it.”
Kudos to Jay Z for staying calm and the security guy deserves some sort of medal for handling the whole thing so well. I really felt sorry for him when he was trying to get them out the door, and they kept stepping back into the tight space. That bit makes no sense to me at all.
I’d dearly love to know what she was so mad about. Not in a blame the victim way, but man is she ever royally ticked off. What could possibly have done it?
Are you responding to the OP? Then you’re engaging in sexism. The OP asked, “should he take it like a man?” and your response is “no he doesn’t get carte blanche to beat the daylights out of [her].” Were the genders reversed and a woman got the upper hand over her abusive man, people would cheer her and hope she not only kicked the shit out of him but hopefully also cut his dick off.
You’re kinda doing it again. Reverse the genders and the answer would be, “abusive men don’t need reasons to be abusive.” No one would openly wonder “what she did to piss him off.”
If you are a guy, hire a woman to beat up the woman you don’t like. Society doesn’t condone that nearly as much. Oh social morality, loophole ye have aplenty.
In all seriousness, spousal abuse against men is a serious problem. There is no social support for men, very little legal support, etc. My understanding is it is better than it was 20 years ago, but a lot of men still have very few resources open to them when dealing with abusive women.
Then THEY would be engaging in sexism, and so are you. I, on the other hand, can be relied upon to choose the path of least injury and most passive effective restraint regardless of the genders involved.
And I very carefully stated that I was not looking for a blame the victim scenario, I’m just really curious what she’s so POd about.
Really? You really think that when faced with this video of a person attacking another person and the attack-ee punching the attacker’s lights out, a judge and jury would be able to convict the attack-ee because he’s a man?
I could be totally naive but I am pretty sure the criminal justice system doesn’t work solely on social mores.
And put me in the corner of “a guy should be able to defend himself.”
Jay probably didn’t go after his sister-in-law because he’s bigger than her, his wife (the sister) was standing right there, the body guard is there to take care of that sort of thing, and he was too shocked to throw a punch. If he had gone on the offense, I highly highly doubt anything would have come of it.
I know you’re not victim blaming but your thought process went from, should he defend himself right to, no he can’t beat the shit out her. Like those are the same thing. You also immediately wondered, “what did he do to piss her off?” You say you’re not victim blaming and I believe you, but your thoughts immediately went to “what did he do?”
Let’s not forget that Chris Brown beat Rihanna badly enough that she needed to go to the hospital, and plenty of people - swooning women included - defended him and still buy his music.
Frankly, I am insulted and disgusted that you bring in examples of women honorably serving our military in combat positions, much less women in physically-active/violent roles in sports, films, etc., as an example of how men are apparently having their ‘roles changed’ and how therefore they just don’t know what to do when women get violent. What a nonsensical comparison. JayZ surely let his bodyguard handle that because that’s what bodyguards do.
And yes, I know of a woman who attacked her then-husband with her fists and nails, and got thrown in jail over it. Cops are being taught much more these days - though that particular incident was over 20 years ago - that the gender doesn’t automatically indicate who’s the abuser.
The social mores against men hitting woman were created for a reason. Women didn’t participate in physical sports. They weren’t trained in boxing or martial arts. Physical violence by women was rare when I grew up. It rarely get reported when it did occur. Or it was dismissed as a catfight. Spousal abuse against men just didn’t get reported years ago. Guys usually just took it and said nothing. Or they fought back and got in trouble if the cops got called.
That’s all changing now. Except the taboo against men striking women remains.
It’s difficult not losing control in a fight. You may only intend to restrain somebody and still hurt them. Or you punch harder than you intended. Gender doesn’t matter. A 250 lb guy fighting a 180 lb guy has a size advantage too. A big guy can inflict serious damage if he’s not careful.
The Chris Brown incident was clearly over the top. He must have continued punching long after gaining the upper hand. He deserved being charged.
I won’t say it’s a non-problem, but compared to domestic violence against women, it’s pretty minor. Most women just don’t represent a physical threat to most men; hell, as an average-sized 60 year old man with no training and little experience in fighting, I’m not sure I know a single woman I’d feel threatened by if she were to try to attack me without a gun or knife. (ETA: Admittedly, I don’t know any women with combat or martial-arts training.)
IYE.
But in an abusive relationship where a man is the abuser, the possibility of its being life-threatening is inherent.
OK, so why didn’t you break it up much earlier? Were you worried that she’d track you down and escalate the violence?
Probably, yes. Even if she’d pulled out a gun and shot him and he tried to shove her away afterwards. From everything I’ve heard over the years, the legal advice from lawyers to men in a domestic violence case is to never retaliate or actively defend yourself with so much as a shove in any way, no matter what she is doing up to and including repeatedly firing a shotgun at you.
Not wholly, but mostly. Just look at who goes to prison; it’s mostly about what your gender & skin color are and how much money you have, not about what you do.
Most of the studies I’ve heard of show that the rate and severity of domestic violence are about the same for both genders. It’s just that no one cares when the victim is male.
And what makes you think that such a woman wouldn’t use a gun or knife? Women in domestic violence cases tend to escalate to weapons faster than men, no doubt because they aren’t as big.
Are we still expected to stoically get slapped around and kicked by angry women? Take it like a man?