The bodies of the four civilian (security) contractors (read mercenaries) were treated worse than most uniformed soldiers’ remains (as far as I can recall.)
May we possibly infer that the “civilian contractors” in question, operating under the authority of, and in the name of, but outside of the control of, the us satrap, are conducting themselves in a manner so as to draw an extra measure of hate?
As nearly as I can glean, these are 150k/annum special forces alum, notable for their large size, their zeal, and their enthusiastic contempt for rules of engagement.
I find the silence of the “liberal” media on this issue interesting.
It may just be that the fact that these “un-uniformed” (I’m sure they actually have corporate uniforms, but you get the idea) mercenaries are resented more. I wouldn’t leap out on a limb and say that they are violating human rights (other than being there) without strong evidence, but if you had some foreign army guys sitting in a camp outside the city, and some foreign mercenaries sitting around the city guarding the points of (economic) interest in the city, which would you target?
In all likelihood, it probably was an isolated event that mushroomed on chance, not some conspiracy or plan. I wouldn’t rule it out from happening again in the future, though.
I was not reaching for any large meta conclusion, but plainclothes cops are always a little freer to …ya’ feel me?
I guess the more interesting question is how wise/unwise to delegate this high-end security responsibility without maintaining operational control. I’m thinking phoenix program redux.
We can’t begin to afford the kind of atrocities that were routine in southeast asia at the fringes, given the global reach of revenge which is way greater than in 1965.
I looked up “goon” in al-Mawrid English-Arabic dictionary. It didn’t give a single-word equivalent (apparently because Arabic has no single word that corrsponds to this meaning). Instead, it offered only a definition: shakhs yusta’jaru li-tarwî‘ al-khusûm aw al-qadâ’ ‘alayhim. Translated from Arabic, that means: “A person hired to scare opponents, or to kill them.”
Woody Guthrie had this really cool song on the subject:
*There once was a union maid, she never was afraid
Of the goons and the ginks and the company finks
And the deputy sheriffs who made the raid
She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called
And when the Legion boys came round she always stood her ground:
Oh you can’t scare me, I’m stickin’ to the union.
I’m stickin’ to the union, I’m stickin’ to the union
Oh you can’t scare me, I’m stickin’ to the union
I’m stickin’ to the union 'till the day I die!*
I had woody’s goon in mind. Perhaps I should have said, “goon squad”.
actually, the arabic def. you cited seems pretty much on point. The principle is the same as when you hire a bouncer. Large and intimidating are job qualifications.
Do these guys wear jumpsuits, or did I just make that up ?
Now Gentlemen. I know that you four are desperately trying to find a rationale for the pig-sucking bastards who drug the cold bodies of the four Americans that they murdered through the dirty sewers that serve as the Falluja streets, other than the fact that they are of a race of pigs, not men. But as for me I find your attempt to desecrate the names of these four brave Americans cowardly.
These men were in Iraq protecting people who were trying to help the Iraqi people, and you four have found it amusing to imply and insinuate that they somehow deserved their unspeakable fate. Does it please you to bring grief to their families?
I realize that you four are probably just youngsters, but it is time that you began to understand that true men are to be treated with respect even at their death.
Now Waiiiit, a minute…I was not denigrating the families loss, and I wish EVERY soldier, in and out of uniform, was getting 150K…
I was trying to deconstruct the metacommunication (if any) of the mob’s behavior.
BTW, these guys are described as driving through towns at 95 mph (understandably…) to avoid getting shot. query:any colleteral damage from these journies?
Yep. Real men firebomb cities and retreating enemy forces and call it a day.
Go America!
Wait, you’d probably find nothing wrong with that, seeing as how you’re keen on genocide… ah well.
I don’t know if you were including me in your illustious four, and I realize that you’re trolling for responses, but this is, after all, a debate forum. Many people realize, however, that when you invade an enemy country, they tend not to take kindly to you walking around with assault rifles. Frankly, they knew the risks they were taking, and they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don’t see the logic in invading someone’s country, then being shocked when they get a bit upset and off some soldiers. I mean, how dare they not know better than being a puppet state for a western superpower.
There is already a long thread about this topic where it has been debated in depth already so I am not going to repeat everything but they were NOT “in Iraq protecting people who were trying to help the Iraqi people”. That is a lie and you know it. They were protecting American military operations and they were legitimate targets.
Does it please you to bring grief to the families of Iraqis killed by American forces? :rolleyes:
I’m more worried about what these guys do when they are alive.
More to the point, how many are doing this work within the us, or how fast could the ten thou in Iraq turn up in manhattan.
I’ve been pondering the coming coup, and I’ve always had trouble envisioning the human resources solution, but maybe privatizing is the way to go. Isn’t there an 18 man coup contingent inconvenientlyi crashed somewhere in africa at the moment?
You would have to assume first that the crowd was aware of the exact identity/job of these people, and I somehow doubt it (the people who attacked/killed them at the first place could have known who they were, though. Or perhaps not).
There has been many instances of an angry mob defiling bodies. IMO, it’s just that people have a tendency to act with utter savagery in some circumstances. Mobs aren’t known for having a high capacity to reason, and don’t need perfectly sound motivations and correct informations to act upon their impulses.
I believe these guys wear (at least) distincitive caps and are tooling about in non-military vehicles. I’ll bet (with ten thousand “contractors” in country) they stand out for flash, size, and free-lance style.
somewhat off topic, do we have any of these guys working here in what they call, the Fatherla…(oops), the Homeland?
I’m going to advance the troubling hypothesis that there are similarily high paid veterans of exotic branches of the service now working the private side domestically.
If, for instance, lumpensturmfuhrer ashcroft sought to “deputize” a hundred thousand “contractors” to "maintain order? at the polling places, would the personnel be available?
Well, yea. Professional security companies do this for a living. They didn’t pop up out of the blue for Iraq- they provide security for people and private places. They also do for some government locations - it is rumored that they do for “Area 51.” They have a lot of service internationally, such as in business ventures in Africa, where companies require escorts for their employees going into town.
Man, this thread is depressing. The notion that people who go to work to provide security for private companies are somehow ‘mercenaries’ is silly enough. To further suggest that because they are ‘mercenaries’ they are legitimate targets is crazier. To go even farther and suggest somehow they got what they deserved for having the incredible nerve of, a) being trained well, and b) trying to keep innocent people from being killed, it simply offensive.
But the crazy-meter goes absolutely off the scale when stuff like this appears:
Oh yeah, the U.S. is just like Nazi Germany, and John Ashcroft is a commander of storm troopers, and the evil Bush administration is just about to send the brown shirts out to the polling places to intimidate people and crack some heads.
That this entire thread is taken seriously by the regulars is proof that the fight against ignorance on the Straight Dope has been lost.
Security guards are not ‘combatants’. They are not waging war on anyone. They are no threat to anyone who does not threaten their clients. Saying that they are legitimate targets is like saying Brinks guards are legitimate targets because they have guns, and if you shoot at them they’ll shoot back.
You will not, I take it, be troubled by this
upi story:
?A coalition military source told UPI there have been repeated complaints about the behavior of some of the armed contractors.
“We have had several complaints about these guys,” he said. “I have had reports from journalists about a group of guys from (a prominent military contracting firm) that got drunk and knocked one journalist to the floor. We’ve also heard stories of them threatening people with guns over this issue. We hate them. They’re not soldiers and they walk around a war zone armed and not held accountable for their actions.”
Another combat soldier with the 4th Infantry Division, which patrols much of Baghdad, complained about the presence of so many armed civilians in a very dangerous city.
“I’m a soldier and this is a war,” he said, leaning against a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and cradling his M-4 carbine. “I’m trained to shoot anyone not in uniform that presents a weapon. What the hell do I do with these guys? They have permission to be here, but I’m supposed to ask a guy with an automatic weapon for ID before I engage him?”
One incident witnessed by a CPA contract employee working for the Iraqi Media Network, the television news branch of the occupation authority, involved an accidental shooting at the hands of private security guards.?
Doesn?t sound exacty like kindly ?Pop? Jensen, who checks you in and out of your high-rise office building each day…
And, yes, it COULD happen here.
Well, they are when they are hired by the US Army and other government branches to defend US officials, US military installations, and US-captured and controlled industrial sites. O_o
If we were talking about an Iraqi 7-11 (who’d work there? White guys?), I can see your point. But these aren’t rent-a-cops working for privately owned businesses.